What is happening in our schools?

[delt]

All very strong positions taken here.

Indeed, i've noticed too.

What doesn't help is that every person or group of ppl decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong - there's no common denominator. Even if we have laws, they don't affect people's morals, values, how they think, how they react, etcetc.

6000+ years of history has proven it repeatedly - especially in the past few decades - that the human species is completely unable to govern itself. We were NOT MEANT to rule over each other. This has lead to failure, is leading to failure, and will always lead to failure, for as long as humans take control for other humans.

[fett]

I don't think anarchy is such a hot idea.

[lerxstcat]

Passing out condoms was never a good idea either, but condoms are not a chemical that can cause strokes and other side-effects like a pill does. Doesn't make passing them out right either way.

Giving boys a condom just gives them the OK to bone, or rape, and/or try out their pickup/coersion lines on little girls - "But I want to show you how much I love you!" and all that crap.

Bad parents instill the idea that a man isn't a man until he's had sex, and that sex turns a boy into a man instantly.

There's more to being a "man" than dipping your noodle - if you cannot financially support the child that is all-too-possible, you're not a man. If you're not willing to step up and commit to a long-term relationship (marriage) for the sake of the child you sire, and are unable/unwilling to support your newfound family entirely by yourself without help from Mommy and Daddy, you're not a man.

I'm sure any 11-year-old boy would listen to what you just wrote and follow it without question! :ROTF:

Kids do things their parents didn't raise them to do all the time. Peer pressure is strong. So is puberty.

This isn't giving permission, it's mitigation of an existing problem. The kids are already doing this, that's why they're trying to address it. The horse is out of the barn, whatever euphemism you want to use. These kids are already having sex, so the question is, how do we mitigate PREteen pregnancies and STDs? With the pill, and condoms.

[lerxstcat]

This is a simple argument. 11 year olds are NOT smart or mature enough to realize the ramifications of their actions. Period. End of story. Try and argue that point, I dare you.

Giving out birth control at that age is FUCKING DISGUSTING. But whats worse is that some of you are for it. That makes me fucking sick, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Its people like that that turn our society into what it has already become, a moralless sex and money grubbing self centered ignorant people.

Thanks alot, makes me feel REAL fucking good about my baby who is 5 months away from being born. Ill have to teach him/her to stay away from people like you. Ill instill the morals in my kid, not let the school system and morally absent people do it for me.

Right, and BECAUSE they're not mature enough, they're GOING TO have sex if other kids are doing it too. You might find when your baby is 10 or 11 that you'll be having a conversation with him/her about this. I hope you're more restrained in that convo so you don't end up with a runaway child, seriously.

Your kid is going to do some things you tell him/her not to do. You can absolutely count on that as human nature. How YOU as the adult deal with that will be key. Talk to that child like you're talking to us and you might create a lifetime estrangement. I'm sure your wife will love you for that, alienating your own child.

Nobody likes this scenario, you acting as though anyone does is rather insulting. Anyone who is for this simply wants to make the best of a bad situation.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do if your 11-year-old daughter DID come home pregnant?

[nsubulysses]

Dude, kids have sex in jr high. That was happening when I was in jr. high 10 or 12 years ago. I would assume it happens even more now. Saying "Don't have sex!" does not work out any problem. It makes kids want to have sex more to spite their controlling parents.

Teaching kids that sex is ok and natural if you are responsible for it makes children NOT want to go out and revolt against their parents tyrannous rule. It makes them want to experience something they are curious about, but not in a haphazard.

The fact of the matter is that children DO have sex at early ages, and that's been happening for hundreds of years. It's a part of our social reality that CANNOT be denied. We can't change the reality we live in. What we can do, though, is work to make it better. Birth control for 11 year olds is not good, but like many have already said, it's way better than pregnant 11 year olds.

Maybe some Europeans can back me on this, but from lots of things I have heard and read (and even experienced a little from a trip to Europe), Europe has less problems with teenage pregnancy, teenage drinking, teen drug abuse, etc. This is BECAUSE parents in Europe respect their children's choices and try to accommodate them and educate them rather than just say, "This is what you can do. This is what you are not allowed to do."

Children in the US are treated like brainless little irresponsible snots, so they act like that.

[monk]

This isn't giving permission, it's mitigation of an existing problem. The kids are already doing this, that's why they're trying to address it. The horse is out of the barn, whatever euphemism you want to use. These kids are already having sex, so the question is, how do we mitigate PREteen pregnancies and STDs? With the pill, and condoms.

It does not happen very often, but I agree with you on this. The school nurse was giving out condoms to the boys who asked for it when I was in middle school, or whatever the English version is called. We were probably a bit older than 11, but kids today has also changed their behavior it seems. Why not offer the same option for girls?

Instead of "someone providing a free ride home from a party and thus making it OK to drink" (as someone tried to argue earlier) this should be seen as "someone providing a free ride home, so that no one has to drive home on their own, while intoxicated".

[fett]

I hate to say this but the Barking Girl would be a prime candidate. Somebody needs to do something fast to save this girl, 10 years old, or she will be just what those school marms are talking about. And, it ain't goin' to be me.

[slayer32390]

Well, I figure I'll throw my two cents in before the lock that usually comes in the politcol threads here.

Let me start off by saying that I am 17 im a senior in high school.

Now to most people that will scream sex drugs and alchohol. In reality I am a virgin and have never had a drink or done any drugs in my life, so I'd say I am a fairly responsible person.

The fact that kids that young require birth control is utterly mind boggling to me. Obviously the parents are not doing their jobs there. My parents raised me well and even if I had the chance to have sex now and that is because my parents raised me the right way. -1 for the birth control the parents need to do their part.

As for the rebellion argument, rebelling is one thing, getting a girl pregnant at 11 is another ball game but the kids dont see it that way. Kids' lives are absolutely destroyed by having a baby during high school. If one were to get pregnant during middle school that would be a devastating blow to a childs future that they might not be able to recover from. +1 to the birth control to protect the kids futures.

I forget who raised this point earlier, but yes STD's will shoot up at an astronomical rate. And some of those STD's will be incurable and may be passed on through to the next generation. If the birth control wasn't available they wouldnt be having sex in the first place IMO. -1 for the birth control, they wont learn self control and it will cause STD's.

Total = -1 for the Birth control, it just doesnt add up to a positive IMO. I intend no disrespect to anyone who has differing opinions but in short I think that middle school is way to young to be having sex. If you cant drive to the store and buy yourself a condom, then you shouldnt have a need for the condom IMO.

Edited for some spelling and punctuation...its 3 A.M. give me a break

[Special-K]

Well, most parents are just not up to the job. At least here in Germany, and I guess it'll be more or less the same in the US.
I'd rather the schools give out birth control pills to the daughters of such families than have more teenage mothers. That's just a perfectly good way to fuck up your life early on, and that of the newborn as well. Those fortunate enough to have competent parents are not likely to end up using the service, and it's definitely a good idea for those who are/would be dumb enough to conceive children at such an age. Which is another problem all in itself...

I agree totally on that...
They can`t blame musicians on this one, cause if a 11 year old girl gets
pregnant it`s the parents fault definetly!

[lerxstcat]

I agree totally on that...
They can`t blame musicians on this one, cause if a 11 year old girl gets
pregnant it`s the parents fault definetly!

Unless it was Trip Eisen.....

[slayer32390]

Unless it was Trip Eisen.....

:ROTF: :ROTF: Nice.

[Endrik]

I disagree about the majority getting what they want. It wasnt the majority that removed what used to be the standard of right and wrong from schools. Its was 1 woman. It wasnt the majority that allowed blacks more freedom in the south. It was one woman. It wasnt the majority that caused the civil war. The whole south was the majority but still had to fight a war because people up north didnt like that they wanted to secceed(sp) from the union. Its not the majority who want gays to be allowed to marry. Its not the majority who want this iraq war. Its not the majority who want junkies to have clean needles paid for by tax money. Its not the majority who want kids at 11 to get pills. Afirmative action isnt a majority decision. Public schools having a monopoly isnt the majority choice. Most want vouchers to choose. Its not the majority who want outsourcing and open borders where any illegal can bring there diseases and other crap here then get free healthcare at the majoritys expense. The majority rules is a fallacy. Its the loudest whiners who rule. All they need is a liberal judge and they get what they want.


If history teaches us anything its that political corruption and everything goes morally brings down a nation. When people found out they could vote themselves freebies from the govt, is when we started the downward spiral. It will never get better only worse.

yeah but usually the majority votes for those whiney assholes who make the decisions for everyone.... they promise all the nice things... people vote for them... they get high positions and then fuck everyone in the ass

That is exactly what we crazy liberals advocate. The whole point is we want to allow you to teach and hold (almost) any morals you want. We are against legislating morality besides very extreme cases like murder, etc.

If you aren't hurting me, I don't care what you believe. Ultra conservative people can teach their kids whatever they want (within reason) just don't try to turn those principles into laws for everyone else's kids... let us also teach our kids whatever we want (also within reason).

If your morals are so important and universally obvious then why do you need to legislate them?

fucking a!!! it's fucking wrong that so many people want so much laws so that everything they don't like should be illeagal... and then the others have to suffer

I'm sure any 11-year-old boy would listen to what you just wrote and follow it without question! :ROTF:

Kids do things their parents didn't raise them to do all the time. Peer pressure is strong. So is puberty.

This isn't giving permission, it's mitigation of an existing problem. The kids are already doing this, that's why they're trying to address it. The horse is out of the barn, whatever euphemism you want to use. These kids are already having sex, so the question is, how do we mitigate PREteen pregnancies and STDs? With the pill, and condoms.

yep this is the truth, they allready are doing this... and so many people can't belive it

Maybe some Europeans can back me on this, but from lots of things I have heard and read (and even experienced a little from a trip to Europe), Europe has less problems with teenage pregnancy, teenage drinking, teen drug abuse, etc. This is BECAUSE parents in Europe respect their children's choices and try to accommodate them and educate them rather than just say, "This is what you can do. This is what you are not allowed to do."

you are absolutely right, teen pregnancy and drug use isn't so big problem as it is in US.

Europe has much more support for free love, early sex experiences etc. It's everyone's personal choice. The society is more open minded when it comes to this.
The parents educate their kids not tell them that you can't do this and that....

I have to disagree with you here, if you were having sex with anything other than your own hand or some random inanimate object at age 10, then no, your parents did not do an "awesome job" of raising you.

you must have been an angel when you were a kid huh?