New PC build

[marcus]

Umm... You missed my point entirely then. Having to pay $60 online as opposed to playing for free. It's not the cost savings, it's the principle of the matter that you already have an internet connection and PC gaming is free (for the most part). Any way to make an extra buck...

You will get no argument from me there. I wasn't really disagreeing with you nor was I trying to justify the $60 fee. I was just pointing out that each system has its advantages and disadvantages. Hell, I don't really play games much anymore anyway, I don't have as much free time as I used to for it

[xenophobe]

I was going to quote this and go through it line by line, but whats the point? I stand by what I said. I wasn't making a larger point about consoles vs. PCs. I was just saying from the beginning that choosing not to go with XBOX to save 60$ a year for online services is a false economy, PCs get you in other ways. Nothing you have said here refutes that. And where the hell did I write that consoles update themselves every year? I didn't.

Umm... You missed my point entirely then. Having to pay $60 online as opposed to playing for free. It's not the cost savings, it's the principle of the matter that you already have an internet connection and PC gaming is free (for the most part). Any way to make an extra buck...

[åron]

You're all gonna cry when all this repetitive stress from playing vids all the time means you can't play guitar without pain. Maybe it's worth it to you, and if so, you're probably on the wrong forum.

[marcus]

A PC will play current games at higher resolutions, with higher details and farther render distances right now.

In 5 years, neither an XBOX360 or PC will be able to play current games.

My last computer 5 years ago is better than a standard XBOX at that same time. My old PC then, right now, is still better than a standard XBOX now.

You seem to think consoles magically upgrade themselves every year.



Well an xbox 360 + nice tv = a nice gaming PC. The gaming PC will play games better now. In five years, that PC will still play games better than an xbox 360.

The money you spend on a console now can upgrade most systems to play games better than an XBOX 360.





Huh? The xbox 360 doesn't magically update it's hardware. The technology is the same. It's already outdated.

Have you seen Halo3? Nice Turok fog limiting the render distance, eh? :p




I gamed for 3 years on my 9800XT. Only in the last year did I really need to consider an upgrade.



You're confused. PC games sell just fine. When you compare the PC to any individual console, PC games sell better. When you combine the PS3, wii, xbox360, psp, ds and every other device is when the console sales figures surpass the PC. Also, the sales figures for console vs PC doesn't include online sales through Steam, EA Shop, or any number of online providers, and PC sales numbers are only kept for the continental US, whereas consles are tracked in Japan, US and Europe.... so those numbers are really misleading.


If you moved out on your own and had nothing to your name but money. It would cost just as much to buy a good console gaming system as it would a PC gaming system. Sure, the TV has other uses, but so does the PC. So the cost factor actually leans more towards the PC because you can do so much more essential things with it.

I was going to quote this and go through it line by line, but whats the point? I stand by what I said. I wasn't making a larger point about consoles vs. PCs. I was just saying from the beginning that choosing not to go with XBOX to save 60$ a year for online services is a false economy, PCs get you in other ways. Nothing you have said here refutes that. And where the hell did I write that consoles update themselves every year? I didn't.

[xenophobe]

I've already stated that you don't need to upgrade the PC every year, even if you do buy the $800 machine Xeno quoted. Only now are games being released that are slideshows no matter what settings are used on the Ati 9000 series cards. Those were released in 2002.

Exactly. I was using my 9800XT until July of this year. And you know what? Most games still played fine and it still looked better than the standard XBOX which was released on November of 2001. And even years later, it still looked better than the standard XBOX. It was even still comparible to the XBOX 360 when it came out years later.

[xenophobe]

My point is that upkeep costs are much more for a gaming PC than a console. If I buy and XBOX 360, I don't have to upgrade it to play the latest games for the next 5 years. If I buy a barely able to make it gaming PC I will need to upgrade several times over the next 5 years or suffer poor looking/running games.

A PC will play current games at higher resolutions, with higher details and farther render distances right now.

In 5 years, neither an XBOX360 or PC will be able to play current games.

My last computer 5 years ago is better than a standard XBOX at that same time. My old PC then, right now, is still better than a standard XBOX now.

You seem to think consoles magically upgrade themselves every year.

You are merely talking about upfront costs here. Believe me, I have been doing the PC upgrade thing to keep up with games for years and this has always been the case. And the fact of the matter is that if all I want to do is surf the web, send email, and download porn, all I need to do is buy a really crappy PC once and not worry about ever upgrading again.

Well an xbox 360 + nice tv = a nice gaming PC. The gaming PC will play games better now. In five years, that PC will still play games better than an xbox 360.

The money you spend on a console now can upgrade most systems to play games better than an XBOX 360.

The beauty of owning a console is that the developers have to learn how to make better looking games without forcing you to either upgrade your hardware or turn off their pretty, sparkly effects.

Huh? The xbox 360 doesn't magically update it's hardware. The technology is the same. It's already outdated.

Have you seen Halo3? Nice Turok fog limiting the render distance, eh? :p

That being said, I don't own an XBOX and probably won't get one. I actually like the games on PC better, I just wish the developers would restrain themselves more AND I wish the marketing types wouldn't force them to release games in a buggy unplayable state. This happens on PCs way to often for my taste, and doesn't seem to happen as much on consoles because, at least until recently, you quite literally couldn't update a console game after release.

These two points, about releasing early and performance issues are not unrelated. If the design teams had more time to streamline for performance, than I wouldn't have to get a new frickin' video card every year. Again, I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

I gamed for 3 years on my 9800XT. Only in the last year did I really need to consider an upgrade.

I realize that PC game developers have to do this because building these games is expensive, and they don't sell as well as the console games, but that's their problem as far as I'm concerned

You're confused. PC games sell just fine. When you compare the PC to any individual console, PC games sell better. When you combine the PS3, wii, xbox360, psp, ds and every other device is when the console sales figures surpass the PC. Also, the sales figures for console vs PC doesn't include online sales through Steam, EA Shop, or any number of online providers, and PC sales numbers are only kept for the continental US, whereas consles are tracked in Japan, US and Europe.... so those numbers are really misleading.


If you moved out on your own and had nothing to your name but money. It would cost just as much to buy a good console gaming system as it would a PC gaming system. Sure, the TV has other uses, but so does the PC. So the cost factor actually leans more towards the PC because you can do so much more essential things with it.

[marcus]

I understand where you're coming from Marcus, but if developers didn't always push the envelope then the hardware makers wouldn't have to respond with even more powerful hardware and the entire computer industry would come to a standstill.

I've already stated that you don't need to upgrade the PC every year, even if you do buy the $800 machine Xeno quoted. Only now are games being released that are slideshows no matter what settings are used on the Ati 9000 series cards. Those were released in 2002.

I am a computer hardware developer myself, so I should just shut up. If the cycle of constant upgrading comes to a halt, I could be out of a job

Most games don't really push the limits of hardware, but the cool ones always seem to. I know you can get by with turning down the performance, but I hate to do that. Oh well, if I want to play the games I have to pay the price I guess.

[Spivonious]

I understand where you're coming from Marcus, but if developers didn't always push the envelope then the hardware makers wouldn't have to respond with even more powerful hardware and the entire computer industry would come to a standstill.

I've already stated that you don't need to upgrade the PC every year, even if you do buy the $800 machine Xeno quoted. Only now are games being released that are slideshows no matter what settings are used on the Ati 9000 series cards. Those were released in 2002.

[marcus]

An average gaming PC now will do so much more than a XBOX360 now.

The costs aren't really much different... I'll tell you why:

I only have a 20" tv. XBOX360 sucks. I can barely read the text, and all the on-screen details are hard to see. Plus, enemies in the distance are too small... I would need a good 26"+ TV.

A 26"+ TV would cost at least $350. An XBOX360 with a couple of games and xbox live would cost you another $450. That's $800.

To turn any newish non-gaming PC (bought in the last year) into a gaming system, you only need to spend $250 on a good graphics card and perhaps $60 on a memory upgrade.

PC = win.

You can also put together a brand new gaming PC (including widescreen monitor for under $800.

Buy this PC for $499... it includes a 20" widescreen monitor, a Core 2 Duo @ 2.2GHz, 2gigs of RAM and an 80GB hard drive, DVD, etc...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=brde2bf&s=bsd

Buy an 8800GT 512MB for $237. That's all you need to add.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1190678470708&type=product&skuId=8594381&productCategoryId=abcat0507002&_requestid=170198

Now you've got a gaming system that will handle any current game for under $800 and will smoke an XBOX all day and night and it will cost less than an XBOX 360 with games, live and a worthy tv. And in case you say that the TV shouldn't be included in the cost because you also use that for television, then the cost of the initial PC shouldn't matter because you would still surf the web, download porn, or whatever you do. Of course, even if you didn't game on a PC you would still have one, right?

My point is that upkeep costs are much more for a gaming PC than a console. If I buy and XBOX 360, I don't have to upgrade it to play the latest games for the next 5 years. If I buy a barely able to make it gaming PC I will need to upgrade several times over the next 5 years or suffer poor looking/running games. You are merely talking about upfront costs here. Believe me, I have been doing the PC upgrade thing to keep up with games for years and this has always been the case. And the fact of the matter is that if all I want to do is surf the web, send email, and download porn, all I need to do is buy a really crappy PC once and not worry about ever upgrading again. The beauty of owning a console is that the developers have to learn how to make better looking games without forcing you to either upgrade your hardware or turn off their pretty, sparkly effects. That being said, I don't own an XBOX and probably won't get one. I actually like the games on PC better, I just wish the developers would restrain themselves more AND I wish the marketing types wouldn't force them to release games in a buggy unplayable state. This happens on PCs way to often for my taste, and doesn't seem to happen as much on consoles because, at least until recently, you quite literally couldn't update a console game after release.

These two points, about releasing early and performance issues are not unrelated. If the design teams had more time to streamline for performance, than I wouldn't have to get a new frickin' video card every year. Again, I'm exaggerating, but you get the point. I realize that PC game developers have to do this because building these games is expensive, and they don't sell as well as the console games, but that's their problem as far as I'm concerned

[xenophobe]

PC gaming is cool, but you have to spend a lot more than $60 a year to keep your PC up to date. An $800 PC will play cool games now, but a year from now it will be slide-show city This really frustrates me about PC gaming, I love the games, strategy and RPGs being some of my favorites. But the developers seem to think that I love handing over piles of my cash to Nvidia, which, to be honest, I really don't. A few years ago I decided to get off the upgrade train, and now my PC won't play any games released in the last year.

It also pisses me off when I have to patch a game 3 times to make it playable. Don't get me started lol

An average gaming PC now will do so much more than a XBOX360 now.

The costs aren't really much different... I'll tell you why:

I only have a 20" tv. XBOX360 sucks. I can barely read the text, and all the on-screen details are hard to see. Plus, enemies in the distance are too small... I would need a good 26"+ TV.

A 26"+ TV would cost at least $350. An XBOX360 with a couple of games and xbox live would cost you another $450. That's $800.

To turn any newish non-gaming PC (bought in the last year) into a gaming system, you only need to spend $250 on a good graphics card and perhaps $60 on a memory upgrade.

PC = win.

You can also put together a brand new gaming PC (including widescreen monitor for under $800.

Buy this PC for $499... it includes a 20" widescreen monitor, a Core 2 Duo @ 2.2GHz, 2gigs of RAM and an 80GB hard drive, DVD, etc...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=brde2bf&s=bsd

Buy an 8800GT 512MB for $237. That's all you need to add.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1190678470708&type=product&skuId=8594381&productCategoryId=abcat0507002&_requestid=170198

Now you've got a gaming system that will handle any current game for under $800 and will smoke an XBOX all day and night and it will cost less than an XBOX 360 with games, live and a worthy tv. And in case you say that the TV shouldn't be included in the cost because you also use that for television, then the cost of the initial PC shouldn't matter because you would still surf the web, download porn, or whatever you do. Of course, even if you didn't game on a PC you would still have one, right?

[Spivonious]

Yeah, I was exaggerating a little bit, but not much. An XBOX360 + $60 a year is still less than 1500-2000 every 5 years. I don't actually have an Xbox, I just wish PC gaming companies would spend more time optimizing for lesser hardware than assuming their audience always buys 2 of the latest video card. Disabling graphical features, lesser resolutions, and scalable polygon engines help, but I get the sense that I am paying the same price for a lesser game than somebody with Der Uber PC. Like I said, don't get me started

Oh yeah, in 5 years, you may be able to buy a PC that will play crysis decently for 2000 bucks. I can hardly wait

Yeah but in 5 years no one will be making games for the Xbox360

And the x1900GT I have cost me a little over $200 new. Not exactly the top of the line vid card (that would have been the x1900xtx at the time)

[marcus]

I spend about $1500-$2000 every five years on a completely new gaming PC. I might have to turn down some graphics settings in year five, but it always lasts me until the next upgrade. Of course, Crysis runs like crap on anything but an 8800 Ultra

Current machine:
Core 2 Duo E6600
2GB DDR2-800
ATi Radeon X1900GT (first revision)
SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

My video card is dying (never buy Sapphire crap) so I'm shopping around for an HD 3850 to put in it.

Yeah, I was exaggerating a little bit, but not much. An XBOX360 + $60 a year is still less than 1500-2000 every 5 years. I don't actually have an Xbox, I just wish PC gaming companies would spend more time optimizing for lesser hardware than assuming their audience always buys 2 of the latest video card. Disabling graphical features, lesser resolutions, and scalable polygon engines help, but I get the sense that I am paying the same price for a lesser game than somebody with Der Uber PC. Like I said, don't get me started

Oh yeah, in 5 years, you may be able to buy a PC that will play crysis decently for 2000 bucks. I can hardly wait

[Spivonious]

PC gaming is cool, but you have to spend a lot more than $60 a year to keep your PC up to date. An $800 PC will play cool games now, but a year from now it will be slide-show city This really frustrates me about PC gaming, I love the games, strategy and RPGs being some of my favorites. But the developers seem to think that I love handing over piles of my cash to Nvidia, which, to be honest, I really don't. A few years ago I decided to get off the upgrade train, and now my PC won't play any games released in the last year.

It also pisses me off when I have to patch a game 3 times to make it playable. Don't get me started lol

I spend about $1500-$2000 every five years on a completely new gaming PC. I might have to turn down some graphics settings in year five, but it always lasts me until the next upgrade. Of course, Crysis runs like crap on anything but an 8800 Ultra

Current machine:
Core 2 Duo E6600
2GB DDR2-800
ATi Radeon X1900GT (first revision)
SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

My video card is dying (never buy Sapphire crap) so I'm shopping around for an HD 3850 to put in it.

[marcus]

The XBOX 360 is like a childs toy compared to a gaming PC. A gaming PC has better and more accurate controls, can render distances farther, use higher textures, and you don't have to spend $60+ a year on an XBOX live account to play online, and games are cheaper. Even though the XBOX 360 can run in 1080p mode, games are designed and play at 720p upscaled. The resolution when I'm gaming is 4x that of an XBOX 360.

Consoles are great if you want to sit on a couch and play games with friends. If you are a serious gamer and have the burning need to keep your system relatively up to date, PC Gaming is much better in pretty much every other respect.

Oh, and a complete KICKASS gaming machine can be bought for under $800 including widescreen monitor.

PC gaming is cool, but you have to spend a lot more than $60 a year to keep your PC up to date. An $800 PC will play cool games now, but a year from now it will be slide-show city This really frustrates me about PC gaming, I love the games, strategy and RPGs being some of my favorites. But the developers seem to think that I love handing over piles of my cash to Nvidia, which, to be honest, I really don't. A few years ago I decided to get off the upgrade train, and now my PC won't play any games released in the last year.

It also pisses me off when I have to patch a game 3 times to make it playable. Don't get me started lol

[xenophobe]

Yes, the cards will work fine under XP running DX9....I typed it poorly, but, my points are this:

Xeno come off like an ass about it. He could have been polite and said " I think what you mean" or " I think you are mistaken"....nope....I get a " sorry, you dont have a clue" .

Secondly, why spend more on a DX10 card if you are going to use XP and have no plans to change to Vista when you can buy a DX9 card that will respond the same and save money? Sure, someone will say the DX10 will do do this a little better running at DX9, but, in reality, its a change that is probably not noticeable.

Thirdly, just go to www.ibuypower.com . Its hard to build a gamer PC yourself cheaper than you can get from these guys plus once you add in their warranty, saving the $100-150 building it yourself isnt worth it.

I used to be into PC gaming, but, it just cant compete with the consoles out there for graphics and stability. I have the XBox 360 and PS3. The 360 is shaky due to the fact its a Microsoft product....but, its online play is great. The PS3 is like a tank and never crashes, but, its online setup is not as nice as the MS deal. I think with time, Sony will be as good , if not better than MS. They have had to eat alot of mud lately and are tired of it.-Lou

Sorry if I seemed rude. I thought I was being civil... well at least for me. lol

Why buy a DX10 card? Even if you don't use DX10, you will still benefit from massive improvements in performance. An 8800GTX is twice as fast as a 7900GTX in DX9. If you want to play the latest games at the highest quality settings with resolutions of 1440x900 or better, you really need one of the newer cards.

The XBOX 360 is like a childs toy compared to a gaming PC. A gaming PC has better and more accurate controls, can render distances farther, use higher textures, and you don't have to spend $60+ a year on an XBOX live account to play online, and games are cheaper. Even though the XBOX 360 can run in 1080p mode, games are designed and play at 720p upscaled. The resolution when I'm gaming is 4x that of an XBOX 360.

Consoles are great if you want to sit on a couch and play games with friends. If you are a serious gamer and have the burning need to keep your system relatively up to date, PC Gaming is much better in pretty much every other respect.

Oh, and a complete KICKASS gaming machine can be bought for under $800 including widescreen monitor.