Tom Cruise = insane megalomaniac

[Bengal]

I see it as different from other "religions", but not hugely.

I don't dig anyone soliciting, especially religion. I also don't like subsidizing any religion, but in my (biased and unprofessional) opinion, the scientologists are really pushing it when it comes to qualifying as a religion.
Philosophy, sure, psychology - maybe but unlicensed, helping the community - ummmm can't see it, but Tom seems convinced

I'm with you on that. I don't see it as a "real" religion either. But no one called to ask my opinion so I didn't have any say in that. I can just bend over and take it, I guess...

[toejam]

I'd hate to hate the wrong person.. .

:ROTF:

[toejam]

Don't be dumb, Charles Manson never killed anybody...

Technically, he didn't, but he's a very sick and twisted individual who brainwashed people to do it for him.

[Bengal]

Didn't he admit to shooting someone in the late 50's? Before the whole Helter Skelter episode? I seem to remember that...

[horns666]

Ask and ye shall recieve...

I could care less what those people believe. Scientology has not touched my life at all. I have no Scientologist knocking at my door trying to brain wash me. So who cares? I don't...

Now if you want to talk about Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm right there with ya...

Nobody knock's on my door...my house doesn't look very..ummm.."welcoming".

Especially to holy rollers..

I have black tinted windows in the front and get a kick watching people go door to door. They get to my walkway and stop, stare and turn..the look on their faces is awesome!:ROTF:

[Bert]

I lived next door to a church of Scientology for several years and witnessed a lot of their "activities". They are a disgraceful organization, quite adept at using compliance tactics that most would consider highly unethical. It's disgusting really. I'm not at all religious, but from what I've seen, the comparison between Scientology and most sects of Christianity (as it is generally practice in the US anyway) is way off the mark. All kinds of people believe in crazy shit, but the tactics of forcing that crazy shit on others is what places Scientology firmly in the cult category. They love to tout the fact that several prominent hollywood stars believe in their BS, but the fact is most of their members are a bunch of easily manipulated losers. Sadly there are a lot of such people to prey on....

[Bengal]

Yep, Christians never forced their views on anybody... Right...

I'm not trying to come off as smug, but all religions have their problems. All of them. Because they are run by man and man is fallable. It's that simple. So every religion has it's skeletons. One is really no better or worse than the other...

But I like the way Bill does it. I need some black tint for my windows and a big ass gargoyle perched in front of the house. I bet that works wonders...

EDIT: But I guess I don't really think of Scientology as a religion. I do see it as more of a cult than anything. But if the person who believes in the cult gets something they feel is positive out of it, whos to say it's not? It's the same position I take with religion...

[Bert]

Yep, Christians never forced their views on anybody... Right...

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote. I never suggested otherwise. I'm just saying it's a different level really. At least *as currently practiced* in the US.

I'm not trying to come off as smug, but all religions have their problems. All of them. Because they are run by man and man is fallable. It's that simple. So every religion has it's skeletons.

Agreed 1000000%

One is really no better or worse than the other...

That's where I disagree with you. You need to take a look at the length to which these organizations go to gain members and money. Scientology is on a totally different level in this regard than most major religions (again here in the US anyway.) There is a difference.

But I like the way Bill does it. I need some black tint for my windows and a big ass gargoyle perched in front of the house. I bet that works wonders...

I like it too.

[toejam]

Didn't he admit to shooting someone in the late 50's? Before the whole Helter Skelter episode? I seem to remember that...

I'm not sure offhand, but it's quite possible.

[Bengal]

Bert,
You make some good points but I guess I fall into the thought that people can make up their own minds about whatever they want. If Tom Cruise wants to believe this bullshit, so be it. Who am I to say it's wrong for him? I don't judge people by their "religious" beliefs. Like I said above, if he's getting something postive out of it, I'm in no position to tell him that's bad...

It's the same with other religions. My father is a very religious man. I respect him in every regard but I don't really follow his beliefs in that area. But I think he's the smartest person I've ever known so how could it be that he buys this stuff? Well, that's his choice and he made it. I've seen positive aspects of religion in his life. Am I to say it's wrong because I have issues with how it's run and what it's done? Nope. Not my choice, it's his and I have to let him make it for himself...

If they want to get duped by these idiots, so be it. What's the famous quote? "A fool and his money are soon parted"...

[Bert]

While it's convenient to write off people who fall victim to Scientology or other religious cults as fools (and sure, many of them are), I don't think it's that simple. Scientology puts churches by college campuses not because that's where the most idiots are, but because that's where there are plenty of victims who may lack the necessary maturity & support structures (many are far away from home for the first time) to withstand their manipulation tactics. I've seen some pretty intelligent people get caught up in their tricks. Through all kinds of deception they are isolated from family & friends and anyone else that might be able to talk some sense into them. Then there are the ethically & legally questionable lengths to which Scientology goes to silence their critics ...

So yeah, I'm also for letting people make up their own minds and believing in whatever nonsense santa claus fairly tales they want. But I'd rather people be allowed to make up their own minds without the sort of manipulation tricks these characters pull. For the record, I'm not a fan of Evangelicals either due to their attempts to introduce nonsense like intelligent design into public education & suppress evolutionary theory. So I do not suggest Scientology is the only organization to pull this kind of crap, but from what I've seen they do take it to an entirely different level.

[Bengal]

Bert,
Well, you were the first to call the people who believe in it "losers". I guess fools is crossing the line?

Bottom line for me and I'm done. People can make up their own minds. I don't force my beliefs on other people. If they want it, there it is. I don't see CNN flooded with abduction stories about Scientologists so I guess I don't see it as a huge issue. It's a freedom issue. If you like it, there it is, go for it...

But that's me. You don't see it the way I do. Cool. But I've stated my thoughts on it and it really is a freedom of religion issue...

Now if you think it shouldn't be called a religion, well, take that up with the government because I don't think ANY relgion should be tax exempt...

[Bert]

Actually I said *most* were easily manipulated losers, call them fools if you like. But it's not quite so simple and I was just offering some clarification. I don't really have an opinion on tax exempt status of Scientology or other religions. I'm just saying when you look at the tactics of these organizations, there are differences. Perhaps you still don't agree with that, and that's cool man, just explaining myself.

[Bengal]

Bert,
No worries buddy. I get what you're saying. Sorry about that first sentence there. When I go back and read it, it does sound bitchy...

You are right, it's not a simple issue. Much more complex than black and white. Like most issues, I guess...

But at least we have this great place to debate it, huh?

[mm2002]

EDIT: But I guess I don't really think of Scientology as a religion. I do see it as more of a cult than anything. But if the person who believes in the cult gets something they feel is positive out of it, whos to say it's not? It's the same position I take with religion...

All religions are cults in my opinion. Everyone wants to brain wash everyone else into believing the same way they do. I guess there's power in numbers eh?
Scientology isn't really any different than any other "cult", just a bit newer. I say, if it makes you feel good about yourself, then so be it....but don't try to brain wash me.