PA Help Needed

[Rupe]

My band just fired our singer so he took his PA and went home
It's been years since I've had to worry about a PA system and I think that I've forgotten more than I know. What would be the minimum requirements for our rehearsal room (16'x28') so that we could hear the vocals loud and clear above the drums? The PA would be for vocals only, no instruments. Any recommendations for a budget system that will cover our needs is appreciated.

[Spivonious]

No recommendations here, but you'd want to get one with at least 200W and some sizeable speakers to be heard loud and clear over the band.

How many inputs do you need?

[Rupe]

We need at least 3 but 5 would be ideal. I am figuring on a 6-8 channel mixer or powered mixer.

[Rsmacker]

I've got a shedload of Turbosound Floodlight I'd be delighted to ship out to you!!

[VoiceX3]

Be careful. I wouldn't think 200 Watts would be enough for vocals to cover the live drums volume let alone over the bass and guitars. I would suggest either a Mackie powerred mixer/head at @ 400 to 600 watts or even one of the Crate 400 to 600 watt powerred mixer/head and a nice pair of JBL Drivers to get the job done.

[StukaJU87]

We used to use one of those Yamaha powered mixers. It even had seperate monitor channel. I think it had either six or eight inputs. With that we used Yamaha speakers with a 15 and a horn and we had those on stands. PLENTY loud enough for rehearsals and we even gigged with it many times. (bar gigs) We had a tri-amp set up and larger speakers and subs for outdoor jobs.

[Spivonious]

200W was a guess We bought a super cheap 80W PA and it distorted well before we could hear it over the band.

[MountainDog]

What's your budget? That will be the deciding factor. As others mention, a powered mixer would be best, then you just add 2 speakers and cords & mics.

Peavey makes very good powered mixers for reasonable prices. Suggest you look for used gear at guitar stores or even pawn shops (for some reason I see a lot of PA stuff at pawn shops).

If you wanted to get something that would work in practice area, but also be something you can also gig with in the future, JBL makes a great system for $1750:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/JBL-ESystem-15-PA-Package?sku=600436

[markD]

we use a 2000 watt peavey power amp (@ 2 ohms) into 4 klipsch pro touring (i forget the actual model name) 3 way cabs and 2 peavey SP4 cabs. we use a mackie 1402VLZ mixer, 2 behringer feedback destroyers and an alesis 3630 compressor. that is our vocal system in our rehearsal space, and it is VERY loud and clear. a bit overkill, but we NEVER have to worry about it!!!

[yard dawg]

Try calling a local sound company to see if they have any professional used gear. Depending on your budget id say get at least a 12 channel mixer(ya never know) and a great high end power amp like a QSC or Crowns high end stuff. JBL eons on stands should suffice and if yall expand you can always get a powered SUB.

Try nashville craigslist too. I see tons of PA gear there regularly. Always get the best gear you can afford. Dont cut corners because ya never know who will be listening.

[thetroy]

Disclaimer: I know little to nothing about PAs.

Why should the vocalist need more power than the guitarist? They're in the same frequency range.

[Rupe]

Headroom and clarity.

[thetroy]

Don't guitars want the same thing? =/

[Rupe]

They don't need it to the same extent...even clean tones are colored a bit by amp distortion. The voice is a bit more complex than a guitar signal and much more difficult to amplify clearly. If you want to know more beyond that, you'll probably need to talk to an acoustic physicist

[Rsmacker]

Why should the vocalist need more power than the guitarist?

Because the most common complaint of any audience is "Can't hear the singer". I've never had to compress the rest of the band so that the guitar comes to the front, but beefing up the vocals is par for the course.

Vocal dynamics mean that a girl singing flat out through a 300 watt amp might not cut through like a big fat geezer bawling through a 150watt amp, the amount of "input" varies hugely all the time.
Things like shitty microphones and shite mic technique don't help. You'd be amazed how many so-called pros bring beaten up pieces of shit mics "because they've had it for years" (what they mean is they are tightwads and think that one mic will last a lifetime). Don't skimp, anything less than a Beta58 is just being a silly cunt. They are cheap enough now, don't buy a £30 mic after spending a grand on your PA, it'll sound shit.

Also, just because Phil Anselmo or whoever, holds his mic upside down with his hand over the whole capsule and has it almost in his gob, doesn't mean you should, you just look like a twat, and unless you have someone who is paid good money to make it all work, you will just have nasty distortion and feedback. Might look cool, sounds shit. Unless, of course, you want that kind of vocal!!!!!

Good wedges make a hell of a difference too. Some bands sound great and are perfectly balanced, but the singer thinks he can't be heard out front because the stage is awash with noise. Unhappy singers are shit singers and a pain in the arse. Good foldback makes all the difference if they can hear what they are singing.

You should be able to pick up decent kit for reasonable money, but don't go too mental, unless you have a bod to actually be out front engineering. Get something for rehearsal that can be expanded with some bins for bigger gigs, so you can put a spot of kick and snare through too. If you get decent sized rooms, get a Hire Co. in, let them worry about the kit, they have shedloads.