Fucked at the pump!

[Bengal]

Tax and burn. That's funny.

Better than Borrow and Spend, I think.

Like it or not, we all are going to pay for this war through taxes. Sad thing is China gets a piece of it.

Could you imagine if we had to borrow money from the USSR to pay for WWII. You think America would have stood for that for a second? Nope. They paid for it with cash and blood.

I'd also like to see them start rationing like they did in that war. Can you imagine the uproar if we said that all malls, or Wal Marts, across America had to be closed on Saturday to help with the soaring energy costs of this war. Or if you could only buy gas on odd days.

Nope, it's life as usual here in the good 'ole USA. I remember hearing a SOT on TV from an Iraqi Veteran who said something like he went to Iraq so people could go to the mall and shop. I think thats fitting.

We ALL are going to take it in the shorts even more than we are now. Get use to it.

[horns666]

Its happening as we speak..wow!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjDArJdUL1M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGlT5...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1NqI...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phCuehuORzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRPhb...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdMf2...eature=related

[Lev]

Don't be surprised if oil is worth $150+/barrel by the end of this year.

[Bengal]

I was reading about how much oil makes how much gas. A barrel of oil is 42 gallons. According to some sites 42 gallons of oil = 19.5 gallons of gas.

Now do the math on that one. If that is the case, the oil companies are taking a loss.

But factor in this thing called "cracking", another way to refine oil into gas, and the equasion can go to 1 for 1. Meaing 42 gallons of oil can make 42 gallons of gas.

Do the math on that one and you'll see where these record profits are coming from.

[chrisolson]

But factor in this thing called "cracking", another way to refine oil into gas, and the equasion can go to 1 for 1. Meaing 42 gallons of oil can make 42 gallons of gas.

Do the math on that one and you'll see where these record profits are coming from.

They buy oil at $115/bl today. 42 x $3.35 = $140.70. "Profit" of $25.70 or about 19% margin per barrel.

Take into account the costs of:
Shipping from the Middle East and other places
Refining
Equipment repair and upkeep
Wages and benefits

Still think they are making that much? Am I missing something? This is a serious question - I'm not trying to start a shit show.

[Bengal]

Chris,
I don't know what you are missing but it's widely known that the big oil companies have made record profits since the start of the war. It's out there, go find it. I don't have the time to cut and paste it here, just google it and you'll find articles from both sides of the fence saying roughly the same thing.

Also it's the oil compaines saying they only get 19.5 gallons of gas in a barrel of oil. Do the math on that one. That would be $65.32 per barrel. So who is right?

I'd also like to know where all that Iraqi oil has gone. Maybe that has something to do with profits? I don't know.

I don't know why you resist this so much. Want to answer that?

I also wonder why gas isn't cheap as shit in Europe. With oil using the dollar, oil has to be cheap in the UK and Europe. But they discurage driving to some extent with the high prices.

Start shit or not, whatever. The facts are there but for some reason you don't want to believe them. I don't get it. But whatever works for you. I'm over it.

[chrisolson]

Scott,
You're really starting to sound like Dan Spitz - "Do the math"...but anyway...

Whether they get 19.5 gallons per barrel or 42 doesn't matter. I did my figures at the "best possible profit" figure. If they get 19.5 than it's worse. Of that 42 gallons of crude, they may get 19.5 gallons of gasoline, but the rest is also useful - motor oil, kerosine, etc. It's not like they throw away 22.5 gallons of by-product, so money is still made.

I understand they're making huge (on an embarrassing scale) profits. But again, they don't set the price on crude, and the sooner you wrap your head around that, the better. The same people who tell you what gold is worth, or how much an orange costs are the same people who tell you what oil costs. Not Exxon, Shell, or Mobil.

Iraqi oil - well, kind of a mystery. Supposedly it's going back into their economy to rebuild the country. I don't know... One problem though is that the militants keep blowing up pipelines and wells, interrupting the supply. Who knows? You don't - neither do I. But a big conspiracy theory is hardly useful if it's all based on speculation.

What am I resisting? The fact that I don't think oil companies need to be "punished" for making money? We've been fed cheap oil for decades. It's our fault for not fixing our dependence on oil. Have you seen the money being brought in by the healthcare industry? Nobody seems to be crying about that, and I don't know too many POOR doctors and nurses. If you want to see things get really fucked up, let government start regulating private industries - do you think that will help? Do you think that they will make it better? Name one thing government has touched that hasn't gotten more expensive... Eveyone cries for government to fix this - what can they do? If they start price setting, taxes will have to pay for the difference - ME AND YOU, GET IT??? If big oil makes money, so be it. Why do you think they're in business? To break even? You gotta be kidding. Gas isn't cheap as shit in Europe and hasn't been for years. The American "outrage" is almost laughable for the Euros - they've been sucking it up for years.

The question Scott, is what do YOU suggest we do? My vote goes for finding something better than gasoline. Less demand = lower cost. Your vote seems to be for the fringe conspiracy theorists. I also approach the problem thoughtfully - I drive a car that gets 30+ miles/gallon, and I ride my bike to work when I can. It's all about consumption in case you haven't watch the news lately. That's what is driving the costs up - every 3rd world country wants to get away from being a third world country. What drives a modern economy? PETROLEUM. China and India have a direct correlation to the increas in cost and consumption. It's really very simple, and it's called supply and demand. Instead of sitting here crying about it, why don't you try to do something about it?

You know, you've got some ties to the entertainment industry. So tell me - why could I buy a "major artist concert ticket" 15 years ago for $25-35, but now the same ticket costs $75? Why is that? Did the artists get that much better? Are there less consumers? Think about it. Draw some comparisons. You look at oil and think it's the only thing that has gotten expensive. I disagree.

I have no ties to the oil industry, but I do have a vested interest in government keeping it's nose out of the free markets. You should too. Do you own a home? I do - and what the government is proposing in the way of meddling in the housing industry SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME. I watch my house de-value by the day. And because government wants to bail out the mortgage industry, I've watched the worth of my dollar drop like a stone. And guess what? Because of that, I've also watched my dollar buy less gas for each one I give.

This is all SO inter-connected. You need to get outside the box to see the bigger picture, and step away from the conspiracy & hate folks running around out there. What good does it do? Congress has dragged big oil into hearings 3 times in 3 years, and has found nothing that points toward any big conspiracy. The only thing that has come out of that (and I agree with this) is that we are subsidizing these industries with tax benefits, and that NEEDS TO STOP.

I hate paying at the pump as much as anyone else. But I am changing my driving habits to try to fix that. If you're sitting alone in a fucking Chevy Suburban with nothing being towed, and the back not full of kids/tools/etc., than maybe you don't need one? I laugh every time I talk to friends who are having kids - what's the FIRST thing they do? BUY AN SUV!! KIDS DO NOT EQUAL SUV!!! Yeah, it's convenient, but hardly a necessity. Safer? That's questionable. I don't buy it personally. The safest vehicles on the road are passenger cars (HOLY SHIT - I bet they better gas mileage too!!). Our minds have been so media washed that Family - no matter the size = SUV. Why is that?

My family never owned one until after 2 of 3 kids were out of the house - my dad got an SUV at the point in life he needed it the LEAST. And he doesn't NEED an SUV. Period. I'll never own one, and I hunt, fish, bike, kayak, ski -- all those things that people say the "NEED" an SUV to do. People just need to be sensible and back off the consumption a bit. It's that simple. Less consumption = less $$$ to the opil companies = less profits = less crying about it.

I gotta get some work done. Have a great day.

[chrisolson]

One last thought... Are you concerned at all about the climate? Cheap oil = more pollution. Those who worship at the alter of Clinton/Gore should really think about this a little bit. According to them, we're on our way to being a giant burning ball of fire, and the petroleum industry is the chief culprit. Yet we still want to buy cheap gas to burn at 14 mpg. Hmmm...

I'm not a greenie, and I personally don't buy global warming at this point. Climate change, yes, but global warming? I see that as fear-mongering, as they haven't been able to prove a thing. But I do what I can to try to keep my "carbon footprint" as small as possible. BTW - can anyone PROVE carbon is the culprit in global warming? Not so far... But that's another argument for another day. One could look at ethanol (OUR SAVIOR!!!) - it emits water as a by-product of combustion. Water is one of the chief components in greenhouse gases. Ethanol is the biggest LIE ever. Inefficent, resource wasting, and no better for the environment than gas. Did you know it takes about 5 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol? some aquifers are drying up in the corn belt where all the ethanol plants went up, and they have to buy water from other areas. I don't know about you, but I think I need water to live a little more than I need ethanol. It also costs the tax payere RIDICULOUS amounts of money in the way of subsudies to farmers, co-ops, and ethanol producers. And they are making RECORD PROFITS TOO!!! Where's the grass-roots movement to drag them into congressional hearings? Why doesn't ADM, Cargill, and so on have to defend their fleecing of the tax payer?

[Bengal]

Chris,
When did I say that government needed to regulate the oil industry? I didn't.

All I said is the oil companies are making record profits. For some reason, that bothers you that I brought that up.

The "reason" I've heard for concert tickets being so expensive is kids stealing songs off the internet. Is that true, I don't know. It's the excuse though.

I see you want to turn this into a neocon/liberal debate. I'm not interested in that. If you read my posts I'm not a Clinton lover, I'm not a Bush lover, I lothe politics in general.

But it does seem to me like the oil companies have become pushers and all of america is addicted to their product. Not all people can bike to work like you do or walk to work like I do. It's not so easy for some folks.

You bring up the housing market. I have not read anything about a government regulated housing market. But I do know that those in the market have screwed it royaly.

I've also spoken out against ethanol. Not a very popular stance here in Iowa. But it's a fools dream.

Fine, get on the side of the oil companies. Thats cool. I don't agree, end of story.

And all the paragraphs you can type won't change my mind. You can keep trying if you want.

But I see that this is really a neocon/liberal debate for you. I'm not interested in that, I said that before. This goes beyond political parties.

[SEEGERMANY]

"Ethanol is NOT compatible with fiberglass and can also disintegrate some plastic, rubber engine parts."

[Bengal]

"Ethanol is NOT compatible with fiberglass and can also disintegrate some plastic, rubber engine parts."

Not only that but it polutes 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. If we go harder at this that is going to be a problem in the future.

[chrisolson]

But I see that this is really a neocon/liberal debate for you. I'm not interested in that, I said that before. This goes beyond political parties.

It's not. It's a matter of economics.

But let's face facts here - GW as seen as the "biggest oilman" of them all, and the price of oil has been blamed on this administration since the day he came into power. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. There are FAR more forces at work than him at driving these costs. No question in my mind.

I'm not a Republican FWIW. I vote where it makes sense to me. But unfortunately the drumming of conspiracy and hatred has been going on since 2000, and hasn't let up. Our nation is politically paralyzed. Pretty fucked up. But too many refuse to take off the rose colored glasses and see the truth - and I'm NOT saying you're one of them.

[Bengal]

Chris,
I see what you are saying, I may not agree with it but that's cool.

I have a hard time being "angry" with a guy who has the Techno Viking as his avatar.

[chrisolson]

Not only that but it polutes 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol. If we go harder at this that is going to be a problem in the future.

Frightening, isn't it? And yes, water will be the next natural resource we'll start running short on. In many underdeveloped countries, it already is.

My hometown is home to the first and probably biggest ethanol plant in the nation. Interesting though - regionally, the gas is higher in my home town than in any of the communities surrounding it.

[chrisolson]

I have a hard time being "angry" with a guy who has the Techno Viking as his avatar.

He hangs on the wall outside my office as well. I'm trying to figure out a way to photoshop the "angry monkey" from Family Guy to have it sitting on his shoulder...