Fucked at the pump!

[thetroy]

The private sector seems to have solved the problem already... Right? :ROTF:

[Cygnus X1]

The private sector has contributed by consuming more.
But my point is that the politicians add fuel to the fire, instead of looking at real solutions.

[chrisolson]

Keep voting for the Dem's...
They will bash those greedy oil companies for the bloodletting!

Oh, wait...nevermind.
Remember the chant...it's all Bush's fault...
Well, either way, putting more power into the hands of the government will solve all this, right?

Right?

Hello...Remember Carter...right?

Heh...

I kinda saw yesterday's little stunt in Congress as nothing but partisan BS. Ok - so you throw punitive taxes at the oil companies -- who ends up paying for that at the pump? You guessed it...

That was partisan grandstanding at the highest level. Complete and utter BULLSHIT. Certain people in Congress have nothing better to do than make some BS symbolic gesture that will never get passed, but they want to "go on record" as being the "voice of dissention", and bucking against the "evil oil companies". I mean, WTF were they thinking there? Crude prices, not Exxon/Mobil are the chief culprit. Blame the commodities traders - those guys are the ones who need to be hung up and stoned.

[chrisolson]

In reading a bit more this morning, we can also throw monetary policy into the mix. The "mortage crisis" has a direct link to this in other words. Bailing out banks = bad.

[YetAnotherOne]

In reading a bit more this morning, we can also throw monetary policy into the mix. The "mortage crisis" has a direct link to this in other words. Bailing out banks = bad.

Maybe, maybe not. If you're referring to the fact that the dollar is devalue because the fed has pumped a whole bunch of them into the banking system over the past couple of years that's really a double-edged sword. For US citizens imported goods and commodities for which our consumers compete in global markets with international consumers become more expensive but for the rest of the world US goods become equally less expensive. Devaluing the currency is one of the last-ditch steps I'd expect to see from our federal governemnt before it is forced to admit that it has created a legal & regulatory environment in which our businesses simply cannot effectively compete.

[Rich#6]

Another part - Stop buying everything from china! We buy everything from china because it's cheaper, which caused the demand for oil to go up and then we are importing too much which weakens the dollar. we screwed our selves from both sides.

[YetAnotherOne]

The military is able to use synthetic fuel derived from coal now anyway, just like the Germans did in WWII. Which makes the point that usable alternative fuel tech existed almost 70 years ago, so who the hell do they think they're fooling? The US has enough coal for centuries of use, we need to get on the stick.

Both Germany and Japan but synthetic oil derived from coal is like so many other alternative sources of hydrocarbon fuels for which the real question is, "Is it economically viable today and will it be economically viable tomorrow?" Ten-ish years ago the industry believed it needed sustained $30-40/bbl oil, which had NEVER happened, in order to bring secondary and tertiary sources on line. Now, however, the cost of all of the inputs (energy, metals, etc.) needed to produce these sources have at least doubled and in some cases quadrupled so it's a fair bet that the $30-40/bbl at which they become feasible has gone up significantly.

Consider the related case of Dow Chemical who, until 3-4 years ago, produced 2/3 of all their goods in the USA. The primary input for Dow's operations is natural gas which, thanks largely to environmental litigation and Congress' closure of nearly all federal lands to new drilling, now costs 10x as much in the USA as in Russia and more than 3x as much here as it does in Europe. We could import liquified natural gas for less than 25% of what we pay here but Congress, specifically Congressional Democrats, have blocked the construction of port facilities to handle the good ostensibly because they're concerned that such facilities would become targets for terrorists. Dow's CEO has been begging Congress to rectify these problems for the past several years because Dow desperately wants to continue production here in the USA. Congress has ignored his pleas and as a result over just the past couple of years Dow has invested many tens of billions of dollars in foreign countries while reducing domestic production to 1/3 their total output. Once again Congress manages to reduce our industrial & tax base, ship jobs overseas, increase the cost of nearly everything we buy all while saying, "Who me?" If current political posturing at home and its attendant market impacts are rapidly driving our chemical industry overseas how could we possibly think about launching what would almost certainly be a trillion-plus dollar effort aimed at doing just the sort of thing that can't be done cost-effectively here now?

For those of you thinking that higher energy prices are a good trade for moving messy polluting chemical industries offshore remember that agriculture is one of the biggest users of chemicals. Have you checked the price of corn lately? From $2 3 years ago to nearly $7 now. That folks is not due to currency fluctuations or ethanol though such do play a role. The second largest expense borne by most grain farmers comes in the form of agricultural chemicals & fertilizers which are largely derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbon fuels. Those costs have more than quadrupled over the past 5 years. I'll leave it to you to guess what might happen to an industry that operates on low to mid single digit margins wen commodity prices regress towards their historical mean while political shenanigans continue to push energy prices higher. Hint: it's going to get *really* ugly out there soon.

There are many and varied examples of how our current head-up-our-collective-ass energy policy is driving jobs & infrastructure offshore while making all of our lives far more expensive than they should be. While the lion's share of the blame lies with the political left W and the Republicans have shown precious little backbone with respect to these issues as well. The fuckups are purely bipartisian in nature this time.

[chrisolson]

YetAnotherOne - I'd agree with you in the new investment in US goods because they are now cheaper to buy thanks to the weakened dollar - foreign investors get a lot more for their dollar in the US now. One would like to think that would equal more jobs and a higher GDP, but I hesitate on high hopes there. I'm a little skeptical because of the number of things we import from overseas, and the number of companies who basicaly exist in the US only on paper.

I also get concerned when the Fed tries to even out the ebb & flow of the economy using monetary policy. That's not why it's there -- but that's what they're doing. Markets should be allowed their ups & downs - that's how we weed out that non-hackers, but instead, we choose bail-outs as a fix. If you allow the markets to work freely, then we don't have "bubbles", or at least they aren't as severe. The housing market fits this perfectly - everything was so OVERvalued, and look what happened... It was the classic "snowflake starts the avalanche" scenario. Now everything is upside down, and unfortunately, foreigners aren't really interested in investing in real estate in the US. I wish I wasn't invested in real estate - I've lost about $20,000 in my home value in just over a year. I didn't have that kind of equity in it to begin with - now I'm upside down, but I'm not looking for a bail out - I'll tough it out and hope to learn/be better for it.

Rich - I'd love to only buy American, but I see that as an impossibility these days. I buy shoes from a Swiss company - made in Taiwan. I own an "American" car, which was probably made somewhere else from mainly foreign-made parts. There aren't too many things that aren't in that boat. It is a GLOBAL economy, and American DEMAND cheap goods. I remember when Wal-Mart was a big "Made in USA" company... My, how times change.

[chrisolson]

YetAnotherOne - while I was typing, you mentioned corn... How come nobody in Congress is going after the BIG AG (ADM, Cargill, etc.) companies? Ethanol producers are still getting subsidied for pity's sake!! Speaking of WINDFALL PROFITS!!!

But nobody will touch the sacred cow of agriculture in this country...

[[email protected]]

could be worse, you could live here in UK, for 1 gallon we pay upwards of $10.56 and it's still rising.

[442w30]

Are we there yet?
Average price in my area is REALLY close to $4/gallon.

Average prices are:
$3.95 today in Austin
$4.11 for the USA

I am down to 75 miles/week in driving.

So since civilization hasn't collapsed yet and this has been going up since late last year, are people just going into debt in hopes this is temporary?
I have noticed a lot more empty streets on the weekends and local attractions attracting fewer people, but it isn't like omega man out there yet.

So how are you getting by? Maybe our Euro friends have gone back to the "Le Cars" and mopeds, subways and trains, but that just isn't an option here.

Euros?
Folks representing the West Side?
Representing the East Side?
Third coasters?
Moosehead lovers?

[thetroy]

I've gone on a diet for starters. I spend no more than $4 per day on food/drink now even when "eating out" I just get 1 thing from the value menu and that's it.

That alone has freed up a decent amount of money.

[horns666]

Most bars rape you harder for a beer than the oil companies. Drink at home..stay home..never leave the fuggin' house. It cost $2.50 just a trip around the block. Everyone should stay home whenever possible..fuggums.

I put 15 bucks in my tank this month...just for three trips to my doctor. That's it..fuggums.

[SEEGERMANY]

Looks like I was wrong. It appears Congress is looking at the 55 mph speed limit again.

[joelayres]

It appears Congress is looking at the 55 mph speed limit again.

What a bunch of short-sighted imbeciles.
Guess they have to at least "look" like they are doing something.