50 shots into an unarmed man Not GUILTY

[rjohnstone]

I hear a lot of people bitching about the one officer that fired 31 shots and that he had to reload.
Well the typical standard issue weapon (9mm semi-automatic) holds 15 rounds, 16 if one is chambered.

That means he reloaded ONCE. That procedure probably took him all of one second to perform.

You fire until the threat is stopped or eliminated.

The whole sequence from first shot to last probably took less than 60 seconds.

Not a single one of us can judge the officers state of mind or THEIR perception of the threat at that moment in time.

Tragic, yes. For all parties involved.

[Bengal]

Fact is, we don't know if the driver was "using the car as a weapon" or just "in a panic and trying to get away from 3 armed men". Nothing I have read states that the car was used as a weapon. The police say it was but we don't know.

What we do know is no gun was found. The basis of why the cops approached the car. No gun at all.

It's a tragedy. And New York has had quite a few "racial" tragedies in the past. So why shouldn't we be skeptical? Because they are cops? Sorry, thats not a pass in my book. Cops have "issues" too, just like the rest of us.

I have no problem with 50 bullets being fired. But it does seem that cops are bad shots though. Numerous times we've heard stories of the cops firing 50+ bullets and only hitting the suspect like 5 times. That can be and is a problem. But I don't think that 50 bullets equals murder, like one person said in the above article.

It's a sad story. It's a "he said - he said" story and most of the time, the courts will fall on the side of the police. That's just the way it is.

But it's still sad. I feel for the guys daughters.

[Bengal]

I've been trying to find out what Sean Bells criminal past was, if he even had one. He did, he was arrested 3 times. Twice for drugs, once for firearms possession. Not really a "choir boy" but not a "hardened criminal" either.

What I do find funny is who shot what. You have 5 officers. 1 shot once. One shot 3 times. One shot 4 times. One shot 11 times and the last guy fired 31 shots. A bit of a difference between 1 shot and 31. Am I to assume the guy that shot once didn't think it was a threat? Cops are trained to shoot til the danger is over. So one cop thought 1 bullet was enough. Another though 31 was enough. That is a bit of a problem, I think.

[horns666]

Fact is, we don't know if the driver was "using the car as a weapon" or just "in a panic and trying to get away from 3 armed men". Nothing I have read states that the car was used as a weapon. The police say it was but we don't know.

What we do know is no gun was found. The basis of why the cops approached the car. No gun at all.

It's a tragedy. And New York has had quite a few "racial" tragedies in the past. So why shouldn't we be skeptical? Because they are cops? Sorry, thats not a pass in my book. Cops have "issues" too, just like the rest of us.

I have no problem with 50 bullets being fired. But it does seem that cops are bad shots though. Numerous times we've heard stories of the cops firing 50+ bullets and only hitting the suspect like 5 times. That can be and is a problem. But I don't think that 50 bullets equals murder, like one person said in the above article.

It's a sad story. It's a "he said - he said" story and most of the time, the courts will fall on the side of the police. That's just the way it is.

But it's still sad. I feel for the guys daughters.

Fuggin' Bengal hits the nail on the head!!

Well, We exchanged 96 rounds and I hit the fucker only three times. I shot the shit out of his car tho. In my defense, I was freaking the fuck out because he shot my off duty partners car over 20 times before I could exit my zone car, then he shot at me eight times from 60 feet away, at night, in the rain. So, my target was shooting back at me. Its not like at the shooting range where you're relaxed trying to get a tight group. When your adrenaline is pumpping your just squeezing in fear of your fuggin' life. They advised me I reloaded..I told them I didn't. I don't remember reloading at all. I couldn't believe it when they showed me my clip I dropped at my feet with two rounds still in it. I did what they called an "Emergency Reload". I fell back on my training..we did that until blue in the face until it became second natural. Now I know why they make us do it over and over..it saved my life and my partners. My wife was pregnant at the time. My son got to know his father and plays better than mosy guys my age on his Jackson because of it. I would have shot that fucker 300 times just to know my son.

We had the trouble spots like these clubs that are well known for chaos (actual name of one club) gun battles. These officers recieved a call to such a spot. They recieved a high risk/priority assignment in c/w male with a gun. With suspect desription that he was armed. Upon their arrival they immediately located/confronted suspect and ordered him gunpoint, which is obviously STANDARD in ALL high risks stops. Suspect didn't comply..suspect tried to flee in vehcle disreguarding all lives of others..suspect was shot..end of story. Obviously it was a "good" radio assignment they responded to due to the fact they located the weapon in question in the suspects vehicle. Somebody had top make that call. They didn't pick him at random and say.."Hey guys, lets shoot this fuggin' guy"

I don't see a problem, but I know my job. Only those who have no clue how to handle such assignments are the biggest critics...but that's parr for the course!

To be honest, people truly sound ignorant in the truest sense of the word, when they insist to critique such matters. Being that I'm highly "observant" and experienced, this reveals the same people intending to debase what they just don't know.

Go for a ride along..go, are you afraid? Just fuggin' go if your passionate about how police serve and protect. Go, just for one day..and make it a weekend on 3rd shift!

Call your city's department and ask them about a ride a long. If they deny you..try the other departments near you...But go!!!

[horns666]

I'm leaving this to those with intelligence and simple logic..Bengal, Rich, Rick, Jason, Scott, QS, CB ect....try to sell blue to Yard Dawg who voiced discontent in c/w cops before. We have no personal beefs towards each other, definitely not on my part. Maybe, he's still pissed about that stolen wallet/purse incident from a while ago..I dunno. There's an old post on that, a quick search should reveal it

It's my B-day..talking about this is right now is fuggin' gay..fuggums.

So, handle my light work..

[StukaJU87]

Bill, to be honest with you, I don't feel like trying to explain this stuff over and over either. It is not worth the effort. Some guys will never 'get it'.

[Bengal]

Bill,
You bring the voice of reason. No doubt it has to do with the "heat of the moment". But it takes guys like you who are trained to handle situations like that. I'm no fool, if I was in that situation I'm sure I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun I'd be so afraid.

I brought up the point of who shot what. What I didn't think of was the guy who only shot once might have been behind the car, so it wasn't a threat to him. The dude that shot 31 times might have been in front of the car with it coming right at him. In that case, I'm sure all of us would do what we thought needed to be done to save our lives. Or we'd lock up like a deer in the headlights. That's what I would do.

But we don't know what was going on. It's a sad story with enough victims to go around.

[horns666]

Bill, to be honest with you, I don't feel like trying to explain this stuff over and over either. It is not worth the effort. Some guys will never 'get it'.

..Scott, just like this.. ..right?

I know, your 100% right!!! Only those that don't get make these complaints. Its so painfully obvious and boring. Whenever I see one of these threads, I wanna jab a fork up my ass just to divert the pain elsewhere..

I'm with you man..the hell with this!!!

[JetFixxxer]

These people who bitch about how the cops got away with it.. would be the same people who would bitch if the police did nothing and the suspect ended up running over one of their family members.

Why the fuck does it have to be racial? I sick and tired of everyone making everything racial. If the rolls were reversed it would have been a tragic mistake.. but since happen to a black person it becomes racial. Why can't it be just a tragic mistake and leave it at that. Just like the duke lacrosse players.. that ended up becoming racial..... I hate people who can't take responsibility for their choices in their life. You're a thief, drug addict, and working at a job you don't like it's not my fault or your neighbors fault it's your fault. Don't give me this shit that I don't know what I'm talking about either. My path wasn't exactly gold when growing up. I had choices and it was me as a free thinking human to make the correct ones.

[CharvelRocker]

I think Jetfixxxer nailed it well. It always has to be racial. It's not a mistake, it's a racial attack. Until people can get that out of their minds, this country is going to have a hard time going places. I think it's also part of a general "Pass the buck" mentality.

Also, I think Officer John Burnell put it best: "When they see you in that car, they look at you like you have a 5000 pound weapon"

[horns666]

Bill,
You bring the voice of reason. No doubt it has to do with the "heat of the moment". But it takes guys like you who are trained to handle situations like that. I'm no fool, if I was in that situation I'm sure I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a shotgun I'd be so afraid.

I brought up the point of who shot what. What I didn't think of was the guy who only shot once might have been behind the car, so it wasn't a threat to him. The dude that shot 31 times might have been in front of the car with it coming right at him. In that case, I'm sure all of us would do what we thought needed to be done to save our lives. Or we'd lock up like a deer in the headlights. That's what I would do.

But we don't know what was going on. It's a sad story with enough victims to go around.

Exactly..I must thank people like you! You make it reassuring that there is people that believe police are not the bad guys. We love helping people like you..it makes our job worthy whenever we can, even when we're injured for life! But, It seems so thankless when others refuse to see it this way. There's a few bad apples in all walks of life, I've known a few..but those fools weed themselves out..they always do. But, this is not the case.

You must ask yourself. What majority of people truly don't like the police and why. Credibility means everything.

[horns666]

Well, you guys don't need me here anymore. You have earned my faith and respect. Jetfixxer..true that bro!

I'm going now..happy happy happy..slappy slappy slappy!!!


Yard Dawg..its all good brother ..Go for a ride a long..please!

[thetroy]

Police in general are not the bad guys, but they ARE people. They are people with a great deal of power over other people. Some of them are good, some bad, and most are somewhere in-between. They all make mistakes just like the rest of us. The difference is their mistakes often have much worse consequences than those made by us normal folks.

Did these cops fuck up? Maybe... we'll never know for sure.

I think it's silly to assume that this case could EVER be solved with no witnesses. Everybody lies.

[Bengal]

thetroy,
There was a "last minute" witness that the police produced that backed up their story. But the victims are pissed because the witness has a criminal record. But when the family is asked about Seans criminal record they say that everyone in that neighborhood has a criminal record so I'm not sure if that's an issue or not.

Finding this guy in the last minutes is a bit fishy to me. But I wasn't on the jury, I didn't hear the whole story.

But I will say again, this is a sad, sad story.

[thetroy]

Yeah who knows what the deal was with the witness. Could be legit or not - clearly none of us on here know!