50 shots into an unarmed man Not GUILTY

[thetroy]

Once they've arrested you they will read you your Miranda rights (You can STFU and if you blab they'll use it against you. You can have an attorney and if you can't afford it they'll give you a shitty one. Got it?).

Until they've arrested you, asking or bitching about your rights is basically an irritant to the cops and probably increases your chances of being arrested.

Mouthing off about how you know your rights, in many places, will get you beat the fuck down for being belligerent or for resisting arrest or assaulting an officer.

I knew my rights when I was a kid and local cops were violating them. I also knew that it was my word against theirs as to what had happened if I ended up in the hospital with a broken jaw, or neck, or back. Or I could keep my mouth shut and go on my way in 20 or 30 minutes.

You're better off not pushing that button with the cops when they are jacked up with stress. Worst case you could escalate the situation until you get hurt, maybe even killed. Why would you want to do that just to fuck with a cop who's giving you a hard time?

It's a Pyhrric victory at best, if you provoke them into wailing on you and you manage to nail them for it after the fact. And chances are you will really be pissed when the judge takes their word and you're convicted of assaulting a peace officer and serve time.

The world, and life, is usually unfair. Fight it and be miserable, or go with the flow and survive.

Eh you're assuming a more serious situation than the one I was referring to. Nobody was arrested and nobody was in danger of making anything physical.

Basically I was at a party that was broken up because some of the kids were underage. It was not at my house and I was not underage, yet was told I had to sit there (for like 2 hours) while they went through and dealt with each person individually. After about 30 minutes of sitting there wasting my time, I decided to politely ask why I was still being held and got the response I mentioned earlier.

Every cop I've met has been very rude and assumed I am a complete idiot. My guess is that they treat young people differently than older people, but that's no excuse.

In my world, you respect people until they give you a reason not to. It just so happens that every cop I've met (in person... not you bill!) acts like some jackass on a power trip.

The exceptions have been campus police - I'm not sure if they count as real police or not, but they have always been helpful and respectful.

I figure the reason for all of this is that, in general, the people who would best handle having that kind of power over others are the ones who don't want it in the first place.

[horns666]

What I see here is a bunch of white guys talking about how to behave and it'll all just be alright. No experience any of you have had can put you in their frame of mind. You simply don't have their perspective. Bill, even though you've spent time in these situations it's only been from the cop side. You didn't grow up black and hassled by cops because you were black.

I'm not saying the cops or the dudes in the car were right or wrong - the only people that know the truth have too much at stake for the actual truth to have come out. I suspect it's nowhere near a cut and dry situation though. It's very easy for the dudes in the car to say the cops didn't do the right thing and it's very easy for the cops to say they felt they were in danger.

Tim, REMEMBER my partners DID grow up black. with single mothers, or guardians, in ghettos ect , ect.. I worked with these guys for years on end. I know their perspective. I've learned that good people no matter what race share similiar views, and the same goals. We talked openly about black/white..nothing like here. I mean we really talked about it. I'll never forget one of my field training officers stated. "Bill, I'm really embarassed, these are my people acting like this."..He really meant that, and he was bummed. I said "I'm 100% Italian and there is many assholes that are Italian, I would never consider them "my people"..we became very good friends, and partners, one of many. He must have told other black cops about me. Because they immediately wanted to work with me. I could go on forver with stories in c/w with working with them..some great, hilarious and bad stories.

I worked in the ghetto for 13 years..I think I have an idea. dealing with nothing but their problems. Some of that shit rubbed off and sunk in..trust me.

[hippietim]

Bill, I know you get it to more than most. But you still have never been black.

I am 50% German and 50% Irish. And I grew up in the South (albeit the northern most part). Depending on how you want to view things "my people" have done some terrible things - yet I can relate to them in general and how they got to doing the awful things that they did. Fear can make people do some astonishing things.

Look, I'm not making excuses for anyone here. But ask yourself this: if that was a car full of hot blondes behaving in precisely the same manner, would the cops have emptied 51 rounds into their car?

[necrotechno]

So, your former boss went on A ride-a-long and observed all that?..wow!

No. He was a volunteer police officer for about a year. He wasn't being paid a salary, but did get per diem for attending the police academy and got reimbursed for uniforms, etc. Like I said, he quit because of the rampant police abuses of power. That was before the days of dashboard cameras and everybody with cellphones, however.

My father was a friend of the former sheriff of our county. One of the most distinctive memories I have of the former sheriff is his showing my father a trunkload of marijuana that he had stolen and intended to sell. Ran into him again a couple of years ago at a funeral, and he said he'd moved on to a smaller police force in the up-state that couldn't keep as close of surveillance on him.

[necrotechno]

Also, I used to work with a kid (well, I was in my early 20's and he was a couple years older than me) who wanted nothing more in life than to be a cop. When an opening came up he quit where we worked, despite cutting his salary in half to be a cop. I asked him why he would do such a thing (he had a wife and child to support), and he said it was because he would get to carry a gun, not have to obey traffic laws, get free meals, have sex with as many women as he wanted, and get to beat people up.

[horns666]

Bill, I know you get it to more than most. But you still have never been black.

I am 50% German and 50% Irish. And I grew up in the South (albeit the northern most part). Depending on how you want to view things "my people" have done some terrible things - yet I can relate to them in general and how they got to doing the awful things that they did. Fear can make people do some astonishing things.

Look, I'm not making excuses for anyone here. But ask yourself this: if that was a car full of hot blondes behaving in precisely the same manner, would the cops have emptied 51 rounds into their car?

Well, that has and could happend sure. I know from experience. I react to the risk and not the person, for my own safety. Body language means everything. Their actions will project if they're a 'no", "yes" and the rare "maybe" person. I've taken down "hot blondes" before as they were anyone else. But whenever you see a cop doing that, there's the same backlash. Remember that blonde that was tased..well.

I had a blonde flirting with me to divert my attention. I wasn't having it, she had a .38 in her pocket. When she didn't comply with my commands to keep her hands on the car, (kept going for her pocket)..I took her down, the fight was on..my black friend/ partner Carl assisted me to control her actions. When I was able to see the weapon ..I yelled "gun". She was fighting and wanting to go for her gun. I beat her fuggin' ass..and confiscated the weopon. Yeah, I was sued civily over that shit..again. She looked like an angel in court. No, I'm not black. But, those are the people I worked with, served, protected and arrested everyday for years. I've seen their side of the coin..I smelled it, tasted it, saw it, but I never lived it.

Necro, with all due respect..sell your bullshit to an idiot that buys it. But, I'm not the one.

[skorb]

Just because the guy's friends say the cops didn't identify themselves doesn't mean they didn't do so. They're going to justify their friend deciding to drive into the cops trying to get away.

And the judge cited the lack of credibility of the witnesses in acquitting the officers.

The truth is that nobody but the people who were there knows what really happened. In our system, reasonable doubt means the cops walk.

I've had my own runins with cops who weren't playing fair too, but without being there I'd have to give the cops the benefit of reasonable doubt.

+1

in this day and age, with all the incredible hassle and abuse that cops take for even firing one round in fear, I totally believe the NYPD in this instance.

the court heard what actually happened. and they made a decision that fit with what actually happened.

[skorb]

What I see here is a bunch of white guys talking about how to behave and it'll all just be alright. No experience any of you have had can put you in their frame of mind. You simply don't have their perspective. Bill, even though you've spent time in these situations it's only been from the cop side. You didn't grow up black and hassled by cops because you were black.

what I see here in this post is dangerous misplaced white guilt that prevents our society from ever placing every citizen on even terms and perpetuates black racism.

my white friends have been hassled by black cops. BFD. does that give them license to resist arrest and try to run the cop down every time?

"how to behave" is for everyone, not just for blacks. the police are not required to give a rat's ass about their "frame of mind," other than to expect that it better be one of compliance with police when arrested.

if you act like a dipshit or a thug you suffer the consequences. same for everyone.

[necrotechno]

Necro, with all due respect..sell your bullshit to an idiot that buys it. But, I'm not the one.

Not bullshit. Those are my true experiences with law enforcement personnel. You're from an urban environment, however, whereas I've lived most of my life in an area that has been slowly transitioning from rural to commercial/suburban. People who live in the larger cities of course don't realize that most of the country doesn't operate like that.

[hippietim]

I have no white guilt.

But you are kidding yourself if you believe black people are treated as equals in our society.

My experiences with cops has been that there are plenty of good people and plenty of assholes and a small number of crooks. Pretty much just like the rest of society. One thing, the ones doing the lame jobs (like bicycle cop duty at the shopping mall) are pretty much 100% dickheads - which is probably why they got shopping mall duty.

[Tashtego]

These are the detectives in question.



I don't understand where the racial bias argument comes in here. The white guys's bullets were fired out of racial hatred but the brown guys' he was working with were not?

[necrotechno]

Notice it's only the WOP who's smiling.

[horns666]

Wow, I could dive into this much further on white/black police issues. Real stuff I've learned as a cop. This has started shitstorms here before. I don't want to go there again.

I have discussed this much easier amoung black peers countless times. In reality, the majority of white people are much too uptight and nervous whenever talking about this amoung themselves.. This was not the case where I come from. I had to LEARN to bite my lip and "adjust" to talking to white guys on a fuggin' guitar forum. I've made that mistake before...noooooo thank you.

Necro..you bore me! You're more predictable than my wife's PMS symptoms.

[skorb]

you are kidding yourself if you believe black people are treated as equals in our society.

you are kidding yourself if you think they actually want to be.

think about that for a minute before firing off a response, ok?

[skorb]

These are the detectives in question.



I don't understand where the racial bias argument comes in here. The white guys's bullets were fired out of racial hatred but the brown guys' he was working with were not?

good post!
a bit of truth always complicates the "victim's" story.