McCain against expanding GI Bill benefits?

[drockilles]

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/26/mccain/?iref=mpstoryview

Wow, as someone who was an officer an the military, this guy is clueless. The argument that he wants more people in the service to be NCOs instead of commisioned officers makes no sense. The military has several programs to go from enlisted to officer FOR FREE. College while active duty is FREE through tuition assistance. If you pass the CLEP test, you don't even have to take the course.
The line "In my life, I have learned more from noncommissioned officers I have known and served with than anyone else outside my family," is rediculous. Yes, the enlisted community is the backbone of the military. In my experience, the most I've learned is from Limited Duty Officers/Warrant Officers, or mustangs. Those are officers in the Navy that made the rank of chief and became commisioned officers after that. They have the knowledge of both sides. I'm sure there is some equivalent in the other branches.
The GI Bill is used for those of us who want to get out of the service and have money for school. I have a couple friends doing that just now, as it is it will hardly cover a 4 year education.
Alright, I'm done. Case of the Tuesdays. Just annoying that someone with a military background who could be our commander in chief shows little interest in our morale and development based on something trivial.

[JacksonDean]

Well, it's not inconceivable that he's learned more from NCOs than from Officers. But to remove the opportunity to advance from the enlisted to officer ranks is stupid. We need MORE prior enlisted officers. Keeps you from dealing with 2nd Lieutenant Stupidity as much.

[drockilles]

Exactly. Academy O-1s and O-2s are pretty much dead weight until trained by the E-6/E7s. But they know how to use a fork and knife.

[JacksonDean]

Exactly. Academy O-1s and O-2s are pretty much dead weight until trained by the E-6/E7s. But they know how to use a fork and knife.

Haha, yeah. When my brother got his commission, I asked him "How's it feel to be stupid again!?" He'd managed to pick up the rank of Staff Sergeant before he got his commission.

[Newc]

McCain was a P.O.W. He's sympathetic to any idea that degrades our military even further.

I can't believe this is the best the Republicans could come up with.

Get ready for 8 years of Dems giving away more of America.

[markD]

i know.....YAY!!!

[åron]

McCain was a P.O.W. He's sympathetic to any idea that degrades our military even further.

I can't believe this is the best the Republicans could come up with.

Get ready for 8 years of Dems giving away more of America.

I don't get the first statement. Please explain the thinking here.

The only thing this proves is that McCain is a senile fart that is pushing a lobbyist and political consultant driven agenda. He's pretty much a proxy whore for corporate interests.

Bring back the draft for everyone, that'll keep things in line, like dare I say, Israel. We could and would rebuild infrastructure at home and keep empirical actions to a minimum abroad. These contractors are bleeding the budgets without accounting nor accountability.

[Bengal]

I've said for a while that the only way to get the American public behind a serious push to end the war is to reinstate the draft. The war right now is too distant for most people. But if you start drafting all the 18-24 year olds this war will hit much closer to home for a lot more people.

If someone would have said 10 years ago that John McCain couldn't beat a black candidate for president, people would have balked. If they were being honest, that is.

The McCain of 2000 is not the same McCain of 2008, his age is getting to him.

His wife freaks me out. I mean REALLY freaks me out. Something very wrong about her.

What kills me is the core GOP voter still supports Bush. I don't see how anyone in their right mind can still back this guy. Approval rating of what? 28% or so? Who is this 28%? Filthy rich, that's who.

They made their bed in 2000 and 2004, now they will sleep in it. I feel they may have given the keys to the Dems for a quite a few years to come.

[Spivonious]

Why should vets get money for college at all? Don't mean to start any flame wars here, I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it. What's the salary for an enlisted soldier?

[Bengal]

Why should vets get money for college at all? Don't mean to start any flame wars here, I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it. What's the salary for an enlisted soldier?

Not sure but I bet it's not good.

I have no problem with this at all. Gives those less fortunate incentive to join the military with the promise that the government will help pay for school after they serve their time. It's good for both the soldier and the country. I don't have any problems with it at all.

[JacksonDean]

Why should vets get money for college at all? Don't mean to start any flame wars here, I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it. What's the salary for an enlisted soldier?

There are a few factors that go into it, but it's basically... not very much. (I think these are monthly rates)

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/pay/2008pay/blenlbasepay.htm

Edit: And the GI Bill is something the enlistee pays into as well, sort of like a saving's bond or something similar. It's not like "Oh, welcome to the military, here's your great piles of cash."

[Jack Napalm]

Like most political issues this one has more to it than McCain being "clueless". There is more to his statements than what appears in the article mentioned above. In one of his statements he said:

"Most worrying to me is that by hurting retention, we will reduce the numbers of men and women who we train to become the backbone of all the services, the noncommissioned officer,"

This is a valid concern today. Is it right? I don't know and neither do most of the people here. The military is not something you can study from the outside. Lets say that the new bill gets passed and people decide to leave the military for school. But since we don't have enough people for the troop levels we need we have to put them on stop loss. So you get the new bill but you can't use it?

Until America stops fighting these wars on multiple fronts retention is a big concern. I know as someone who enjoyed the benefits of the GI Bill I was very happy but it did not cover everything. I would have loved a bill like this. I do know this, McCain does know more about the Military than Obama does.

[rjohnstone]

Having heard McCain's entire explanation as to WHY he doesn't support the new bill, I have to agree with him.
It runs the risk of having too many short timers in it for the quick payout.
I like the idea of a sliding scale on benefits. Stay in longer and get more on your way out.
The core of our military is the NCO. These are the guys that get the shit done.
Like my old man said, "Don't call me sir, I work for a living". (He retired from the Navy after 30 years. He never went above the rank of Master Chief). He said becoming an officer would be a step backwards.

[Ripley7t]

I am torn on this issue. I guess in the end my position would be that I really dont see a problem with someone serving 4-6 years on active duty to get money to cover a 4 year college education. In my eyes as long as you serve your active/inactive time, its your right and choice to stay in the military or leave. I do think that since 9/11 things have changed greatly. I did almost 22 years total in 3 military branches. Believe me when I say that many recruiters and the armed services themselves really sell the educational benefits. I know from experience. I recruited for the Marines in the 90s. Now that the shit has really hit the fan the pot doesnt look as sweet as it used to.

To think that an increase in educational benefits would gut the military of their mid level NCO's is not only short sighted, but also insulting to me as a retired NCO. If they are going to leave they will go no matter what is offered. If they are going to stay it's for far more important reasons than pay and education.

I have seen many individuals turn down 30-40k bonuses for reenlistment and leave the military. I have also seen many reenlist for 8 years without so much as the afternoon off.

I just think trying to tie the educational benefits to any type of retention problem is just unfair and not realistic. Maybe the real problem is issues like back to back deployments, inadequate training, etc. I would start looking there first.

[skorb]

McCain is a total jackass.

nothing he does or says is on the level.

straight talk my ass, he's a weasel who has lying to your face down to an art.