Gay Marriage revisited, Political postings discouraged

[hippietim]

The Americans posting here are all going to live their lives out in a Christian country unless they leave the USA. Pushing the majority too hard can cause a backlash and that will be to your detriment.

But if you really want to rub it in to Christians' faces by insisting on using the word, don't expect mutual understanding to be increased. Since Christians are and probably will remain the majority in this country, that doesn't seem to be very wise in the long run.

That right there illustrates the problem wonderfully.

Pat asserted there is Christian bashing going on and went so far as to say "Either you're open-minded and respectful, or not". That's probably true. You and others have chimed in similarly.

But your statements above illustrate the essence of the very Christian intollerance I am talking about.

[charvelguy]

I think I actually PM'd Sully and later went off on Tekky after the fact. I don't believe I pm'd you regarding it tho...for some reason...you may have been gone. Possibly the thread is still there tho..if you wish the need to delve into the point.

[lerxstcat]

Honetly Rich I'm not totally sure what you're talking about but let me point out a few things.

1) I got a pm about some "anti-god" sigs not long ago. I went and read the sigs and quiete honestly someone writing "I am god" or something to that effect doesn't hit the same level has calling someone a slur. We don't allow racism on the board so I'm not sure why you assume we should allow hateful epithets

2) We don't sit at the pc and read every post or every signature. If there is something offensive it really needs to be pointed out. Generally, you'll see us move "religious" threads because they are a lot more apparent. I had started scaling my time back here because of my change; I assumed the board didn't need the drama. I figured I'd just ride off into the sunset. So 95% of the time unless there was a complaint by pm, I'd have no idea if something was offensive.

You can't hold me or the other admins responsible for something we may not know about. I do my best to be fair but lets face it. If I have a member who is abrasive, has racist overtones and generally causes trouble come to me and complain about something so trivial then I really have to sit and scratch my head...

If your position on this is that you haven't been informed, ~K~, then now you have been informed about it. Tom's comments on Brian Welch (Head) of Korn and the bashing there are a good example. But it's pretty pervasive. Maybe you don't notice because it's not personally offensive to you.

How about a general statement that God and Christian-bashing will be no more tolerated here than gay-bashing or racist comments? We're just asking for a "fair is fair" environment. After all, Christians ARE a minority on this board. So make tolerance real for ALL the minorities here.

You know that I have been nothing but supportive of your changes, and I am glad that you're happy. That actually goes against Christian teachings, but I choose "love thy neighbor" over other conflicting teachings. People here chide me for that for having an "a la carte" philosophy. Because I am Christian in heart doesn't mean I buy everything that is in the Bible verbatim.

So when I say that, I get Hippietim, for example, saying "you're just an a la carte Christian then". WTF? I'm not in here tearing apart the beliefs of Wiccans or athiests. When I present the Christian view on gay marriage, I'm just telling it how it is. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, just saying that this is why the Christian position will never change.

So for saying something that is just a fact, I get a bunch of people lining up to tell me why they think my religion is fucked up. I'm NOT here telling you to go to church and find Christ. I'm simply explaining the position of most Christians regarding gay marriage and why it's inflexible.

I realize that this is a reason religious threads are frowned on here. But the implication is that it's those pesky Christians causing the trouble proselytizing, and that's untrue. A statement of policy that Christians should get the same respect as anybody else would be cool.

[lerxstcat]

That right there illustrates the problem wonderfully.

Pat asserted there is Christian bashing going on and went so far as to say "Either you're open-minded and respectful, or not". That's probably true. You and others have chimed in similarly.

But your statements above illustrate the essence of the very Christian intollerance I am talking about.

I'm simply stating a fact, Tim, which you spin to again bash Christians. It's logical to deal with your environment as it is, not as you wish it were. The environment of America is that of a Christian-dominated culture.

Is the goal to get the tangible benefits legalized, or to rail at the Christians? Depending on the goal I think a recognition of the factual environment would help in forming a strategy to achieve the goal. An approach that avoids a direct confrontation with a core religious tenet would probably be best - IF your goal is to get legal status.

If your goal is to piss and moan at the status quo, then carry on....

[hippietim]

I'm simply stating a fact, Tim, which you spin to again bash Christians. It's logical to deal with your environment as it is, not as you wish it were. The environment of America is that of a Christian-dominated culture.

Is the goal to get the tangible benefits legalized, or to rail at the Christians? Depending on the goal I think a recognition of the factual environment would help in forming a strategy to achieve the goal. An approach that avoids a direct confrontation with a core religious tenet would probably be best - IF your goal is to get legal status.

If your goal is to piss and moan at the status quo, then carry on....

That is a seriously close-minded response - I wouldn't have expected it from you. It is what I expect from most people though.

Also, given the state of things in our land and the direction our leadership is taking us in, I wouldn't trumpet the merits of the status quo too loudly.

[horns666]

They are researching that there may have been life on mars...or still is. Oh, and they found water on the moon..how much I dunno. My point is I wanna be the first to fuck a marsian..or did we already thousands of years ago..again, I dunno.

It's all supposed to be game over on 12- 21, 2012 anywhoo..just in time for some last minute Christmas shopping, and pud slappin'.

[Emthrax]

I would like to nominate this one for Quote of the Year.

My point is I wanna be the first to fuck a martian..

[hippietim]

Bill, Rich, K, and the rest of you nutjobs - it should would be fun to have a beer together - prefererably at a gay martian bar.

[lerxstcat]

Bill, Rich, K, and the rest of you nutjobs - it should would be fun to have a beer together - prefererably at a gay martian bar.

A point of agreement! These things tend to be better understood when talking in person rather than through a computer screen!

[~K~]

Ok guys my big question is, has this thread run its intended course? Should it now be moved? It honestly wasn't designed to be a religious or a politically driven post. I am honestly bothered when I see a division amongst members over controversial subjects. For this reason we normally do not allow these types of threads.

When this story was posted in the paid area it was never intended to be posted out here. The problem arose because I assumed that once I let the cat out of the bag that rumors could fly and emails would be rampant. "Hey the admin on the JCF just posted a whopper"

I decided that I would rather control how and what info was given out instead of having people speculate and make false assumptions. It was never intended for one minute to become a political sparring area ..

Now I'm signing on and seeing religious fights, political postings and such ..it's simply not cool because it creates a hostile environment and that pushes some people to not want to post. For instance, I know of 1 other trans member of the board the reads but will not post. She told me about herself because of this thread, otherwise she would have never made herself known. For her, this board could appear hostile ...

Is that really cool?

So what turned into a really good thread for me has now degraded into a religious boxing match...

Should we just close it now?

[lerxstcat]

That is a seriously close-minded response - I wouldn't have expected it from you. It is what I expect from most people though.

Also, given the state of things in our land and the direction our leadership is taking us in, I wouldn't trumpet the merits of the status quo too loudly.

I really don't think describing conditions as I see them is the same as trumpeting the status quo. Again, I'm describing what I see. I don't see what's close-minded about describing our country as I view it.

If I say that the sun's gonna expand and absorb the Earth in 5 billion years, does that mean that I endorse that? No, it means that it is what I believe will happen based on what I was taught in science class.

I have also been taught, in both science and religion classes, that there are mysteries to which we don't have answers.

The direction our leadership is taking us in is also yet to be seen. Both major parties are saying that they man to fix the problems this country has, but we don't yet know who will win or how close they'll come to keeping their promises. History shows that most political promises are not kept.

[lerxstcat]

Ok guys my big question is, has this thread run its intended course? Should it now be moved? It honestly wasn't designed to be a religious or a politically driven post. I am honestly bothered when I see a division amongst members over controversial subjects. For this reason we normally do not allow these types of threads.

When this story was posted in the paid area it was never intended to be posted out here. The problem arose because I assumed that once I let the cat out of the bag that rumors could fly and emails would be rampant. "Hey the admin on the JCF just posted a whopper"

I decided that I would rather control how and what info was given out instead of having people speculate and make false assumptions. It was never intended for one minute to become a political sparring area ..

Now I'm signing on and seeing religious fights, political postings and such ..it's simply not cool because it creates a hostile environment and that pushes some people to not want to post. For instance, I know of 1 other trans member of the board the reads but will not post. She told me about herself because of this thread, otherwise she would have never made herself known. For her, this board could appear hostile ...

Is that really cool?

So what turned into a really good thread for me has now degraded into a religious boxing match...

Should we just close it now?

~K~, has ANYBODY on this thread actually said anything hostile against transgendered people? I haven't seen it.

But I also haven't seen you say that this board will not tolerate bashing people FOR being religious any more than for being an ethnic minority or having an alternative lifestyle. Is THAT cool, to you, to tacitly endorse such religious slurs?

[charvelguy]

ya, if you want to lock it up.. thats cool and understood, I'm more than fried on it.

[charvelguy]

hmm, chips n cheese time. cheerio!

[~K~]

Rich please don't twist my words.. I didn't say anyone said anything hostile towards TG people. I said that when we have hostile threads it segregates some people from participating out of fear ...

You obviously haven't gotten the point that I've only gotten 1 complaint about religous bashing and it had to do with what was deemed offensive in someones Sig file ...

I seriously got a complaint for this

I'm your new god. I actually taught god how to play guitar.

that's the only complaint that I've personally received about anti christian sentiments