Supreme Court Ruling On D.C. Handgun Ban

[rjohnstone]

Would that be the same reaction when some guy gets the idea to sneak into your daughters room in the middle of the night? I know I've done that many times when I was a kid. Would you know the difference? Really?

Would I know the difference??? Can't say.
But my house has a front door. You want to come in, knock and ask permission.
Life has consequences. Know the house and it's owner before you try sneaking in. If the "guy" knew my daughter well enough to even have that thought, he would know better than to try.

[Bengal]

Rick,
I see what you are saying. And the news is not filled with boyfriends being shot by the father thinking they were an intruder either. So it's not that big of an issue.

I have no problem with people protecting their homes and families how ever they see fit. That is your right.

I do have a problem with "Gunfight At The O.K. Corral" out on the streets of America. That's where I tend to get riled.

Hell, you guys know the deal. How many times have police officers shot at someone only to hit them once or twice? Remember that dude that was shot and killed in NY City, the cops fired something like 80-100 bullets at the guy and only hit him like 8 times. Remember that? Those are cops that are trained to shoot. Just imagine what a citizen without that training would do.

[yard dawg]

When I was a young and dumb teen I was a thief. I stole crap from peoples cars.The law never caught me but once when I was prowling I was shown the barrel of a 12 guage and that was the last time I stole anything. PERIOD! That gun in my face and the potential to have been killed was a strong deterent. Gun ownership is a fundamental right in this country. It always has been. If you do not want to own a gun or be around a gun then you have that right. I choose to own guns. I train my kids to use them and to be responsible.

If I shoot back at someone attacking me and miss then I have to face the consequences just as a cop does when they shoot and the bullets go stray. No one is saying we want the wild west here. We just want to be able to legally and without harrassment from the govt to own a gun for hunting and self defense.

As far as being told anything from a foreigner, well we all know how I feel about that. If a hostile country invades your perfect country dont come crying to the US for help.
The best way to judge how great a country is,is by the number of people who want in. How many want in Belgium as apposed to the US??? NUFF SAID!!!

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

I train weekly on COD4, so I’m confident I can hit my target.

[Bengal]

I train weekly on COD4, so I’m confident I can hit my target.

hehehehehehehehehehehehe.

I have yet to find you on there. Is your name something like "insertnamehere" or something like that?

[rjohnstone]

Bengal, I have a funny one though.
Little background...
My father-in-law has a modest collection of firearms and I learned early on what I could and couldn't "get away with".
Sneaking in wasn't on the "ok to do" list.

Anyway, when my brother-in-law was still living at home (he's a lot younger than my wife), one night one of his friends came over in the middle of the night to go out TP'ing with him.
He started tapping on the wrong bedroom window. My father-in-law thought it was someone trying to break in, so he grabbed the .357 and the mag light and went to the side of the house to see wtf was going on.
When he lit the kid up with the flashlight and drew the gun (note, he did not shoot him), the kid wet himself on the spot. And not just a little.
My father-in-law dies laughing every time he tells that story.
He said the look on the kids face was priceless. I'm sure it will be the last time he goes sneaking around other peoples houses in the middle of the night.

[Bengal]

Rick,
Good story. Your father in law should have gotten a picture!

But I still go back to the theory that criminals do not care if you are packing or not when they break in. If they did, they wouldn't do it. So home owners having a gun is no deterent to crime in the house. If it was, break-ins would be nil.

[Newc]

Newc,
I see what you are saying but I'm not lining up for Chemotherapy just in case I get cancer down the road. See what I'm saying? There is just as many examples that will show my side just like your side.

It's like saying that Diet Coke keeps me from drowning. I drink it every day and have not drowned. Well, I guess thats more to the deterant side of things.

And everyone does NOT have the same oportunities here in the states. That is just plain wrong. People are held back by color, sexual preference, social class, ect. It's not easy for us white americans to understand that but it's true. Most minorities have to start a few steps back from us white americans.

I can see your point about Chemo heading off cancer, but then no criminal is going to give you the opportunity to arm up before beginning the event. Cancer at least gives you time.

The Diet Coke analogy is similar to the trumpet that keeps elephants away - "you see any elephants? Then it's working".

However, living in The South (infamously racist part of the country), I have not seen anyone held back from advancement in the factories I've worked in based on color or sex. It was all based on qualifications, and skin color was not one of them. Mental capacity, physical ability to do the job, and ability to communicate are the 3 primary requirements.

If someone doesn't have the brainpower, that's their reward for skipping school.
If they don't have the physical ability, that's their reward for being lazy.
If someone can't speak clear English, and have to repeat themselves because they cannot form the words properly, they are holding themselves back.

On the other hand, I've worked in places where I couldn't understand the mushmouth coming from everyone else, so I didn't get very far.

[OnlineStageGear]

Haha, I'll bet Rosie Odonnel is pissed, but it's ok with her to have her security guards have guns. All the studies I have ever read say over 99% of all gun related crimes are commited with an illegal guns. I'll give up my guns the second you can assure me that every criminal out there does not have a gun.

[rjohnstone]

I wouldn't say that they don't care. I think they are just betting that the house they picked is not a threat to them. More a calculated risk than anything else.

I'm personally not too worried about being surprised by a burglar in the middle of the night.
My entire house is wired up. Door/window sensors, glass breakage detection and motion detectors. And the video cameras are a nice touch too.
Sneeze on my house the wrong way and I'll know about it.
The element of surprise is taken away.
Not saying some dumbass won't try, but if they do, I'll get it all on video.
That way I can watch it over and over again. Laughing as they are either walked out by the police or carried out by the coroner (their choice).

[Bengal]

Newc,
I see what you are saying. I'm sure the blue collar sector sees less problems with race than the white colar sector. But there are some obsticles for minorities to overcome that we white people don't have. It's not easy for us to see but they are there. The only way to truely know is to be their color.

Wasn't that a bad C. Thomas Howell movie? He changes color to get a scholarship? Forget the title but it sucked.

[Bengal]

Rick,
I don't know if they care or not. I think thats not even in their thought process. They are not thinking if the guy has a gun or not, they are thinking about themselves and what they need.

So in that aspect, guns are not a deterant.

I've never thought they were. I've never thought prison was or strong sentences. None of them deter anything.

[rjohnstone]

Rick,
I don't know if they care or not. I think thats not even in their thought process. They are not thinking if the guy has a gun or not, they are thinking about themselves and what they need.

So in that aspect, guns are not a deterant.

I've never thought they were. I've never thought prison was or strong sentences. None of them deter anything.

I agree that most probably don't give it a second thought.
But I highly suspect the ones that are "career", take that into consideration when scouting a place to break in to.

It's all about risk in the end. Some people are just really bad at assessing it.

[Bengal]

Sure, career criminals are a bit smarter than your average break-in artist. They go for business and whatnot where the score is much better.

[Vass]

Rick,
I see what you are saying. And the news is not filled with boyfriends being shot by the father thinking they were an intruder either. So it's not that big of an issue.

I have no problem with people protecting their homes and families how ever they see fit. That is your right.

I do have a problem with "Gunfight At The O.K. Corral" out on the streets of America. That's where I tend to get riled.

Hell, you guys know the deal. How many times have police officers shot at someone only to hit them once or twice? Remember that dude that was shot and killed in NY City, the cops fired something like 80-100 bullets at the guy and only hit him like 8 times. Remember that? Those are cops that are trained to shoot. Just imagine what a citizen without that training would do.

Bengal-

You're kinda arguing both sides here- On one side you're arguing nobody needs a gun to protect themselves (I think) because crime is so rare. On the other hand, you're saying nobody should have a gun because lots of folks get killed.

In regards to break ins being avoided because someone has a gun- You can't prove a negative. What can be suggested (NOT PROVEN, statistics don't work that way, as we all know, but suggested with a very high degree of confidence) is that, in the 31 states where concealed carry is available to normal citizens, crime went down after the laws were enacted. Similar to the gent that was shown the 12 ga, crime is not nearly as fun when death is a card in the deck.

There will always, always, always be those that are crazy enough to disregard the chance.

As for the "I don't want the wild west".... as I said, 31 states with concealed carry laws on the books...and all the dire predictions of road rage shoot em ups and blood in the street yielded exactly nothing. Up until some guy a couple years ago, not one CCW holder in the state of Florida had lost their CCW for a firearms-related violation. The people who get these things are law abiding and level headed, almost as a rule. Exceptions? Yes. But I'd be willing to bet more straight up murders are committed with police pistols than by CCW holders (and that's not a knock on the police- the point is there is ALWAYS going to be a shitbag who makes everyone look horrible, but they get alot of press precisely because it is a man bites dog story- NOT the norm).

Now, my story:

I had just moved to Jersey City, this was 01. Had not a stick of furniture in my apartment. Wasn't on a bad street, but not a great street anyway. Car stolen a few years later, but that's a different story. Urban.

I was on the top floor. Had my own landing. No reason for anyone to be up there unless it was to get into my apartment. 3rd floor 1 br walkup.

I did have my Mossberg. So I'm laying on my sad little barren apartment floor one night around 11pm, and I hear "rattle rattle", someone playing with my doorknob. Mute the TV. There it goes again. Now they're sticking something in the lock.

Rattle Rattle. Rattle Rattle.

Now I'm up, with the shotgun, standing in the hallway, not in front of the door. Suddenly, BOOM. They hit the door, hard. Boom, boom, boom. Hit it a few more times.

I pump the shotgun, as hard as I can. Pretty loud. Silence. Rattle rattle rattle. I finally shout "GET OFF MY FUCKING LANDING OR I WILL BLOW YOU OFF it".

I hear a woman's voice, heavy accent: "Oh, apartment is not for rent?"

No shit. I look through the peephole, and it's this old asian lady. I put the gun aside, out of sight, and open the door. Some poor son of a bitch with her, about my age, looks like he's seen a ghost and is already halfway down the stairs.

"No. No, it's not for rent. The one downstairs is though. Have a nice night."

Here's the thing, and maybe this is helpful: You never know exactly how you're going to react. Much like the guy that caught the kid that pissed his pants, I was as cool as cool could be. Kinda surprised me. I knew I had the shotgun, I knew how to use it, and I knew that whatever came through that door was in serious trouble. I did not point the gun at the door. I did not feel the need to. At no point was that lady anywhere near being in danger.

And it's a fucking good thing, because I shit you not. She. Did. The. Exact. Same. Thing. 2. Nights. Later.

Vass