Supreme Court Ruling On D.C. Handgun Ban

[GodOfRhythm]

Really, do you LOVE how I said that? Why? What point of yours does it make? Is that somehow insulting?

If I said "This bar is crawling with women" would that equally be negative? No, of course not!

So for YOU, the problem cannot be "every school in this country is absolutely crawling with (BLANK)". I know this because if I said "every school in this country is crawling with hot chicks", you'd have no problem.

So for YOU, the word must be "foreigners". Why is foreigners a perjorative term to you?

? You are completely and totally missing the point I have been trying to make here...You are trying to make me out as some sort of racist, xenophobic person while I am trying to explain to you the severity of the need to have equal treatment and education for everyone living the US. (or the world for that matter)... Do you realize how wrong your assessment is? Wow, just wow......

The point your statement made for me, was that by saying your schools were crawling with foreigners you underlined my two reasons:

It is, in the least, a symptom of social inequality. An amalgamation of both impossibility of plenty of us citizens to reach a college-level education, mainly BECAUSE of social inequality and lack of proper base education and values instilled upon them by those means AND the fact that having some of the world's best educational facilities, while at the same time having the insurmountable problems I was talking about, is , again in the least, a symptom of said problems.

You seem to be dead-set on me hating Americans, which just is not true. And your lack of insight is perhaps evenly symptomatic and displaying of my arguments [ Not trying to play 'ad hominem', as you so eloquently put it].

EDIT: WOW JUST WOW, again. I just sitting with my jaw on the floor here. I can not BELIEVE what I just read...

[diablomozart]

actually kennesaw is redneck hell...i dont believe they really enforce it but as long as the criminals believe they do then its all good...lol...when they first passed the law all of us expected exactly what the article stated...that it would would become a bloody mess...we were all shocked and to be honest, quite pleasantly surprised when the opposite happened...as far as rights etc?...i really dont care if people own guns or not...my issue is with the fact that the government believes they should be making all of the citizens' decisions and choices for them...guess that's why i fall under the banner libertarian...d.m.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter."

"Our legislators are not sufficiently apprized of the rightful limits of their power; that their true office is to declare and enforce only our natural rights... and to take none of them from us."

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

all by a much wiser man than i...Thomas Jefferson...our country is not what was originally intended...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

[Bengal]

diablomozart,
I don't believe rights should be taken away either. Guns are too ingrained in our society, they are here. Can't get rid of them now.

But what about the dude who lives in that town that doesn't want to own a gun? Are his rights being taken away with that law? Seems like it to me.

But if it's not enforced then not really.

[Vass]

? You are completely and totally missing the point I have been trying to make here...You are trying to make me out as some sort of racist, xenophobic person while I am trying to explain to you the severity of the need to have equal treatment and education for everyone living the US. (or the world for that matter)... Wow, just wow......

The point your statement made for me, was that by saying your schools were crawling with foreigners you underlined my two reasons:

It is, in the least, a symptom of social inequality. An amalgamation of both impossibility of plenty of us citizens to reach a college-level education, mainly BECAUSE of social inequality and lack of proper base education and values instilled upon them by those means AND the fact that having some of the world's best educational facilities, while at the same time having the insurmountable problems I was talking about, is , again in the least, a symptom of said problems.

You seem to be dead-set on me hating Americans, which just is not true. And your lack of insight is perhaps evenly symptomatic and displaying of my arguments [ Not trying to play 'ad hominem', as you so eloquently put it].

If I misunderstood what you were trying to say then I apologize. It is very difficult, however, for me to read your statement regarding my saying "crawling with foreigners" as ANYTHING ELSE other than implying I am a racist, or xenophobe. Xenophobia is a word not often used in the United States, not because we don't know what it means, but simply because you really can't live here and be one...you'd go nuts. This is the most diverse country in the world, period.

I do not think you are a racist. I was taking YOUR words and reading them in the most brutal, no-benefit-of-the-doubt light, to return the favor I believe you were extending me.

I will close with this: You claim to not "hate" Americans. Clearly you hold us in deep contempt. There is no other way to read your original post, which I reproduce here, in its entirety. Read it as others have, and judge for yourself its intent:

Fact of the matter is, and I'll catch a lot of fucking flak for this, but whatever:

Pop QUIZ 101

If 70% of Americans is simply too dumb to spell correctly and more than half lacks the intelligence or education to point out a country on a world map, those are the last people that should:

A) Drive powerful, fatal-on-impact, SUV's

B) Have the right to 'bear arms'

C) Have a deciding voice in matters such as stem-cell research, abortion,...

D) All of the fucking above.

----

D was correct.

There is simply no other way to take that statement. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

I am not ignorant of you, in the sense that I've read many, many of your posts and found you to be a well-thought out and reasoned individual, the proverbial "Guy I'd Probably Enjoy Having A Beer With". That's not changed, nor is it likely to change. We disagree, alot, on many issues brought up on this thread, and probably would on many more given the chance. I think most of the disagreement comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of each other's cultures. I am willing, and in fact do, admit, that there is a huge probability that the "speech restrictions" in Belgium in practice are not nearly as insidious as they seem to American eyes. Doesn't mean that we'd accept them.

By the same token, America is not as brutal or ignorant a place as you seem to believe it is. If anything I'd implore you to take a closer look. You proclaim to love Americans- I think if you looked at us with fresh eyes you'd like us even more.


Vass

[joelayres]

GodOfRythym,

I don't suspect that we will ever be in ageement, as we both come from places with completely different ideologies. That said, however, I respect your country's right as a sovereign nation to act as it sees fit regarding it's laws. We in the US can only ask that you respect our country's right as a sovereign nation to allow our citizens to have guns.

[GodOfRhythm]

There is simply no other way to take that statement. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.


Vass

No. While I agree I might have come off the bat quite strong, to make an impression (and it certainly worked), there was truth there.

If there was social equality and social justice and a decent education, there would simply be no reason for me to have stated what I have stated, because the numbers and the statement itself simply would not have held up.

I have said the same about people living in Belgium [read: flemmish block]. There is an obvious dichotomy. It has NOTHING to do with gender, race or origin, it has everything to do with the person himself.

Lack of education, growing up in the ghettos and almost having to fight for your food, while being threatened by people who have already 'been pushed of the legal line', so to speak, is NOT the breeding ground for well-balanced, intelligent human beings. It's becoming so bad that you almost have to reserve moral judgement over many criminals nowadays, and that is NOT their fault, but the fault of a defective government.

Now take the almost exact same blueprint of the 'gangbangers' in America, as a blueprint, but give them a greater financial power: in such that they ARE employed, but they have not resorted to heinous crimes yet. You basicially get what is the largest portion of voters for Flemmish Block. Undereducated people, struggling to find a way to cope with the world and their problems. The only difference is, here they are usually spared from a life in crime, due to our Social Security and whatnot, but ideologically, they still believe in the extremist right-wing propaganda Flemmish Block spews their way (propaganda which is horrifingly similar to Hitler's). And when faced with that, I call them ignorant, period.

And I agree Vass, I have no problems with you as a person, but this discussion is heated, to say the least!
But logical and rational fallacy has to be called out, in order for any discussion to stay on track.

[shreder13]

No. While I agree I might have come off the bat quite strong, to make an impression (and it certainly worked), there was truth there.

If there was social equality and social justice and a decent education, there would simply be no reason for me to have stated what I have stated, because the numbers and the statement itself simply would not have held up.

I have said the same about people living in Belgium [read: flemmish block]. There is an obvious dichotomy. It has NOTHING to do with gender, race or origin, it has everything to do with the person himself.

Lack of education, growing up in the ghettos and almost having to fight for your food, while being threatened by people who have already 'been pushed of the legal line', so to speak, is NOT the breeding ground for well-balanced, intelligent human beings. It's becoming so bad that you almost have to reserve moral judgement over many criminals nowadays, and that is NOT their fault, but the fault of a defective government.

And I agree Vass, I have no problems with you as a person, but this discussion is heated, to say the least!
But logical and rational fallacy has to be called out, in order for any discussion to stay on track.

get a job

[Bengal]

I'm not bored anymore.

[shreder13]

I'm not bored anymore.

you're welcome

[Hellbat]

Just heard that the US Supreme Court has ruled that the D.C. gun ban is unconstitutional. Woohoo! Hopefully, similar laws around the country in various other cities will be done away with soon based on this ruling

Stepping aside from the gun debate, I think the present administration has proven without a shadow of a doubt that the constitution hasn't and won't affect their ability to dictate their policies.

For example the DMCA and Patriot Act.

[joelayres]

For example the DMCA and Patriot Act.

The Partiot act is clearly over the top, but whats wrong with the DMCA?
The DMCA simply protects the owner of a copyrighted work from unauthorized use and/or distribution of that work. Do you not believe that an artist should not benefit from his/her work?

[Hellbat]

DMCA shouldn't trump and illegalize fair use.

[joelayres]

DMCA shouldn't trump and illegalize fair use.

What is your definition of fair use?

[Ralph E.]

All i'm gonna say is the best thing I ever did was move from New Jersey to Georgia.

My rights as a law abiding US citizen will remain intact here in Georgia long past my lifetime.

This from the congressman from NJ:

"Today, President Bush's radical Supreme Court justices put rigid ideology ahead of the safety of communities in New Jersey and across the country," U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) said. "The American people demand and deserve strong, common-sense laws to prevent gun violence."

[Bengal]

All i'm gonna say is the best thing I ever did was move from New Jersey to Georgia.

My rights as a law abiding US citizen will remain intact here in Georgia long past my lifetime.

???? I don't get that. How is Georga better than New Jersey? Both have the same reputations.

The state won't decide what rights you will have or not, the feds will. Patriot Act anyone?