Filesharing - Give us a chance!

[Bengal]

I don't agree.

While there are some well done albums in home environment there's still a big differece.

Some stuff is cool with the DIY way but I and many others love albums with great production values.

You can't learn how to be a producer in school... good producers are just born. You can learn engineering and mixing but not producing.

Producers are visionaries.

While you can get a pretty good sound at home... it doesn't guarantee a good production at all.

Sound is only a very small part of production.

Artists themselves are very bad as producers. (with a couple of exceptions... Jimmy Page and stuff)

You can make a decent sounding record at home but with no hi end studio and producer you are no way gonna get such a production wich are on Peter Gabriel or Pink Floyd albums.

+1000.

You cannot get the sound of a good studio, good equipment, good engineer, and good producer from one or 2 guys in someones bedroom.

They may be decent demos but nothing like some of the bigger albums in rock history.

[tooslowhand]

As far as the whole listening before you buy argument goes...

If a band like Metallica (or any other) makes their music available through their website or through a Myspace page or any other, the net result as far as revenues is the same. You are hearing their music without paying for it, and you could call that "stealing" if you wanted.

The only difference would be that you have the artist's blessing or consent to hear a particular song or group of songs. But in the end you have that material at your disposal, to listen to when you want and you haven't paid one red cent to do so. They are being shrewd capitalizing on the excitement and anticipation of fans that want to hear their new music before everybody else does.

I have listened to the music on the Metallica website and the 5 second snippets placed out of context are not going to sell me on their new album. I would assume that as time goes on, more material will be available through Metallica's own channels so we shall see. In the interest of full disclosure, I must say that it would take the work of God himself for Metallica to impress me sufficiently at this point. Going further down that path, I was one of the people who hated TBA, Load AND Reload but actually welcomed St. Anger for at least embracing something a little different and dark, however derivative.

It was a lot easier when I was young, for sure. I always knew where the good albums were: the ones that said Iron Maiden and Ozzy Osbourne on them. But I have gone on to buy countless albums (for example, Aretha Franklin's "Lady Soul") based on hearing a song that I really liked through file sharing.

That being said, my file sharing days are long over so I will probably never hear the new Metallica album. But I've spent enough on those guys over the years anyway.

[bibz]

What a stupid futile argument this turned out to be. It sucks for the op, that the label wasn't mindful of such a release. It's the norm nowdays to watermark promo copies, but obviously that requires multiple manufacturing runs. It's gonna leak for sure, sucks that it leaked before retail!

The issue seems to be with the artists feelings here. Everyone can download because the artist doesn't get much money from the cd anyway....well the record company only exists to profit, so guess where their money is gonna come from now! You've only ever heard of the bands you like because they promote them, tour them, get them in your ears and face. To be honest, the only thing thats changed is how easy it is to download this stuff. Back in the day (not that far) noone knew what the hell an mp3 was. I was waiting for a better quality format to come out but it took off! Up until Napster it wasn't mainstream, then it got picked up bigtime. Which was so convenient and easy any moron could use it. And did. Now with the ipod and itunes its easy to create a 'legal' version of napster. I fucking hate apple, I hate the ipods and itunes. Its yet another company taking a slice of the pie. And when your talking about microtransactions globally thats many many slices!

The major difference is how easy it is to create a copy of the IP. You can't steal a cd from a shop as easy as you can copy paste some files. Which is creating a new physical copy of the IP. One which is just as easily spread and recreated throughout the globe. You cant copy/paste beer or petrol, it sucks, maybe scientists should work that out!

As for bedroom production you'd be VERY surprised...theres differences between joe homestudio and a top level producer obviously, but sonically the gap is closing! The Loomis solo on Warrell Danes new cd (downloaded and purchased here) was recorded in a bedroom. Actually Loomis was sitting on the guys bed I think

Sorry to be the logic here and I hope its again a thread I kill

[442w30]

+1000.

You cannot get the sound of a good studio, good equipment, good engineer, and good producer from one or 2 guys in someones bedroom.

They may be decent demos but nothing like some of the bigger albums in rock history.

Case in point, the new Judas Priest album.. Never thought I'd say that.

[Bengal]

Case in point, the new Judas Priest album.. Never thought I'd say that.

I'm not up on the Judas Priest example. Have not heard the new album. What's the story?

(This will piss some off I'm sure but fuck it)

I've seen first hand what a good producer can do for an album. It literally blew me away how much imput he had into how the songs go, how the guitars sound, helping re-write passages, helping line up a reliable drummer, helping find a fill in when that drummer had to go back to Sepultura, help with vocals and vocal melodies, knowing when something was 3 cents off tuning wise, keeping the band on track, showing love for the songs when the artists are so pissed off and frustrated that they want to dump all of them. Those are the kinds of things that producers do that not many know about. Oh yeah, he helped find unusual substances that some band members required. Cough.

But the biggest surprise for me was the effect he had on the vocal performance. It was amazing and something I feel very blessed to witness.

To my ears, artificial reverb will never sound as good as a nice big room that has been built for recording. But that's just me.

EDIT: Like the last piano chord at the end of Day In The Life by The Beatles. I love how that note rings out and goes on and on. No computer can reproduce that sound to my ears.

[toejam]

back in the day old guys,,,,,we all copied a cassette or 20 for friends till they bought there own..and some didn't.. kinda the same shit its always been.

MOSHON
DAVE

Exactly. Even Metallica copied their demo tape a shitload of times when they were poor, let it be circulated around the world so people could make more copies. I found the whole Napster thing very funny that Metallica became millionaires and forgot where they came from.

[Endrik]

As for bedroom production you'd be VERY surprised...theres differences between joe homestudio and a top level producer obviously, but sonically the gap is closing! The Loomis solo on Warrell Danes new cd (downloaded and purchased here) was recorded in a bedroom. Actually Loomis was sitting on the guys bed I think

there have been some legendary drum sounds recorded in someone's bathroom.

no one (except for the musicians) gives a shit if the guitar has a crunchy marshall tone or massive mesa sound... or if the snare has a "crackling" sound or it's more like a "pop"

you are not gonna make the next "Sgt. Peppers" or "Electric Ladyland" with a small budget just because you can get the guitar sound close

people need albums wich have good songs and the right vibe... to get that you need a good producer... good producers are expensive... and there's a reason they perfer hi-end studios

I just brought a new Peter Gabriel release "Big Blue Ball" no one has gotten even close to that kind of thing with a bedroom studio and cheap budget

so many are talking about the guitar sound or stuff like that... that's minor league stuff.... the big guys are talking about the big picture

the artist writes some songs... he/she or the label hires a fancy producer... the artist tells what he wants to archive with the album and what's the target group... the producer doesn't go "hey we should use that bass sound for it".... the producer tires to make the artist's goal alive... he is using his vision to do that as he is the first objective "audience".... he greates the right vibe... chooses the right tunes... makes the proper arrangements etc. wich in his opinion would make the album enjoyable for the target group... he usually chooses a good studio for good working environment and for the best possible results.

just because some dude has a great home studio doesn't mean he is going the get the same results as the dude who is working in a studio with a good producer

[skorb]

Illegal downloaders get to pick and choose the laws they want to follow.

No real difference.

I post alot because I love to hear people defend illeagal activity. I love it.

Because it doesn't hold water.

Oh yeah, and I'm bored at work. LOVE posting on the company dime.

and posting on the internet on your company's time when they are paying you to do their work isn't "stealing?"

you appear to be the most self-righteous person on this forum, while you "steal" your employer's money and time. I'm not defending filesharing of music but your hypocrisy and holier than thou attitude is laughable.

[skorb]

Filesharing is the only reason your band will get heard. And it's also the only reason you'll get any sales outside of Sweden.

It will also give you a larger fan base, so when you tour, you will have at least some people coming to see you.

If your band is good, that is.

You should applaud filesharing. It's the only reason Metal is popular again.

B I N G O

thanks for finally injecting some common sense into this swamp of idiocy.

[Bengal]

and posting on the internet on your company's time when they are paying you to do their work isn't "stealing?"

you appear to be the most self-righteous person on this forum, while you "steal" your employer's money and time. I'm not defending filesharing of music but your hypocrisy and holier than thou attitude is laughable.

And another one steps up.

No, it's not stealing. When I'm at work it's somewhat of an "on call" thing. I work when it's requried. When it's not I watch TV and surf the internet.

Much like 100% of the people in my business. See, in the news business it's cosidered a good thing to surf the net. Never know when you might find a good story. Makes sense, right?

By that standpoint, I'm stealing when I go to the bathroom. HA! Laughable.

You really should know what I do before calling me out. You have no clue what I do for a living. Those assumptions are a bitch, arn't they? Makes you look stupid.

As for my attitude, I would say the same exact thing about you. From what I've read, all you do is shit in every thread you post in. Rarely do you agree with the OP. You just bark to hear your own voice. I figured you out right away. Not too hard.

Why do these fucking idiots always want to call me out over some bullshit? Like I said before, have a problem with me? Fuck right off, I could care less. Want to call me out? Make another thread buddy, we'll go at it til the cows come home.

EDIT: But I knew that "Company Dime" quote would upset someone. That was a light jab at someone who threw that one at me in a long gone thread. But we are encouraged to surf the net at work. Better than sitting there staring at the wall waiting for the next update or show to do.

[Bengal]

And since when has metal become popular again?

Show me a metal song that's gaining massive radio airplay?

Show me metal bands selling like bands did "back in the day". Nickleback doesn't count.

Ain't happening. Not here anyway. In Europe sure but not here.

[horns666]

Wassup Guys..Hey Bengal! Metal is goin' NUTS these days. Metal is bigger than ever..bigger than the 80's ever was. You know why I know this. Because I can't keep up with it anymore..that NEVER happened!. Bands like Iron Maiden, Slayer ..yada..and such NEVER needed the radio to survive. It is underground. Its like a whole wolrd beneath our world..it thrives..it lives in vivid 3D..but unseen..unheard by most. Just like "Journey to the center of the earth"..the center has gotten bigger..because of the internet and will conitinue to do so. Because kids are glued to myspace and shit instead of listening to the radio and watching tv for their only music input. Yes, kids today are listening to bands you never heard of..and watch 2 girls and 1 cup vids. It's true! That shit (pun) is fuggin' huge..but that's not on TV..you see what I'm sayin'.

I'm a Metalhead..always was and will be. It is an essence of my existence ..like food, fuck or drink. I will ALWAYS support what brought me so much joy..even when I can't afford it.

You still eat when your broke right? Sometimes its a good meal (steak)..sometimes not so good (Ramon pride soup)..whichever the case you bought it...thereofre you appreciated it more..because you earned it, bought it..let the joy ensue.

I'm old school..I bought metal records when I was a kid because I liked the fuggin' cover. Sometimes the band kicked ass..sometimes they sucked..that's the fun. It was so awesome when you got lucky with one of your new favorite bands!! The internet completely ruined that experience for me. I detest it..I loathe it..those who do it..never really had that before. It was never there for them to miss. So, this is cheap, easy, convienent for them.

Word of mouth!! There is established, like-minded metal aficionados here ()..I bought great stuff just on their word without listening to a single sample of the band that was recommended. That is something I always held dear..like fucking..and enjoy in the comfort of my home..in front of my stereo..with the cd in my hand..smoking a bowl..and stuff...oh I don't induldge in inertnet porn tho. I mean porn is the real reason why anyone has a computer..because we're all are truly sick sumbitches.

The way I see it..Metal is a fuggin' investment. Sure I've bought some bones , but even some of those became rare metal artifacts that go for big duckies on Ebay...which makes me reconsider getting rid of it..because of its significance and worth.

But hey, that's just me rambling.

This is also a double edged sword for metal bands in a way. Because myspace page is worthless to me. Sure its a great way to promote your band (job for a cowboy) . The bands on my myspace are the ones I've already known about..that's why they're there.

[Bengal]

Bill,
I guess we need to define "popular". In your sense, I see what you are saying.

But back in the day, Round and Round was a top 20 hit. Motley had hits like Home Sweet Home. Def Leppard had huge hits. I don't see any metal bands doing that now. There are a few but they are fringe metal bands like Nickleback and Stone Sour and bands like that.

I also see what you are saying about Slayer and Maiden but last time I checked, Slayers last album had not gone gold yet. It might have by now but I have not seen it. It's a damn good album but still, it hasn't moved over 500,000 units in the US. But then again, Slayer never moved a ton of units. I'd be more interested to see numbers on Maiden. But I'm sure they are not at the platinum level.

So it all depends on the definition of popular. I usually say liked by a large sum of people. As much as I hate the radio, people buy the crap they spew on there. So I guess they like it.

[horns666]

BTW Gryphonbro..I seen your (tap harm) youtube thing. You seem to have it together! I Haven't come across your band Silent Call..but I will check it out. I usually shop at Century Media or The End. I just ordered a big batch from CM. I would have picked yours up if I've known. I blew my load and then some at CM. I'll getcha on my next metal hunt!

[horns666]

Yeah Bengal. People buy what they hear all day on the radio to, fro and at work everyday in constant rotation. They hear it so fuggin' much..it turns them into zombies for record companies. All that is gold surely does not glitter!!

I mean "Popular" as bands with staying power and duration that many "bigger" bands have. The mainsteam made metal accesable..fasionable again with these Emo- Core crap. Kids traded in their FUBU-wear and DJ equipment for a guitar, black nail polish, eyeliner and hair products...just like the 80's without talent! I have HHB tapes when it came back on in 2004. All the bands were TRUE metal. Now the same fuggin thing happened as the early 90's. I quit watch HBB because the big wigs took it over again wirth their bullsit!. Ther's hardly any metal on it, with the exception of JP inteverview between horrible cooki cutter BS! Anybody could do this core-trend..much like rap or nu. Now, kids can start a band, get a myspace page..get enough hits and fake friends and breakthrough and act like rock stars, even without a band. Emo is to metal what Hair was to metal.. what Rap was to metal..what Nu was to metal ..all trends with expiration dates. True metal is timeless. Put on Trivium...Hey, I give 'em a C+ for effort, Black Tide a D..but then put on the new Testament for example..see what I'm sayin. That's metal. That will always be metal! Oh, but Bill they are good for being that young...That's bullcrap! ALL metal bands were young and some point and sounded much better than that 25 years ago. Hey, but bless 'em..y'know at least kids have a choice, instead of everyone speaking in ebonical tongues..that was so fuggin' wrong..it was patehtic!:ROTF:

These kids are diggin' guitars just as we did when we were young. Playin' the same shit we did..thanks to Guitar hero I, II, III, IV, V ..ect..Hey, whatever works..

Just look at the trends that came and went on American Idol. People vote for what is popular. Do you think those two "rocker" dudes would have a chance during the ebonic plague. No, that wasn't marketable. They wouldn't even gotten to Hollywood..baby..dawg. I can't believe I watch that shit sometimes. Well, they wife was into it..sorta...that sheep!

My wife HATED "cookie monster" vocals 6 years ago. Now she thinks 80's metal ..even great clean singers like Jorn Lande or Russel Allan sounds gay"!! "That sounds old..and gay..like Bon Jovi or whitesnake". Me.."But you loved that stuff"..Her "Yeah, back then"..Me "Yeah, 6 years ago..you only like it because that's what me and your son do all day". She would have hated my stuff 6 years ago. Ummm ..not really..because I am pretty awesome!

But she knows the difference between talented "gruff" singers and Screamo shit..that shit is just fucking irritating.

Whenver I see some fat, sweaty Emo-fuck screaming in the microphone..I wish someone shoved a dick in his mouth to shut him the fuck up!