Filesharing - Give us a chance!

[GryphonGuitar]

New bands are screwed.

People DO NOT EXPECT TO MAKE A LIVING WITH MUSIC!!!

No, I gave up on that dream many many years ago. I think the last album I made made me a total of a hundred dollars altogether, if that... I don't ever expect to live off this.

But the "new bands are screwed" part is the one I'm really afraid of.

[Norton]

Go get that "rock journalist "guy . Listen to what he has to say.

[Endrik]

New bands ARE screwed.

The industry is DEAD. ZERO.

I saw it myself in LA... the center of entertainment world. People are NOT happy.

There's nothing we can do.


that being said.... go after that journalist and beat the crap out of him... then tattoo "cocksmoker" on his forehead and tell him that it helps him stand out in the world of literature and journalism as the man who spreads the word

[Newc]

Then again, if the journalist who posted the download information has a reputation for picking good bands, and doesn't just throw up stuff willy-nilly, the free download may still result in physical sales, or iTune-type sales.

Yes it sucks that the internet has completely eliminated the hope of anyone except the rich or pop puppets from having a career in music, but there's at least some chance that you'll get a larger fanbase than if your CD was only available from a website or a coffee shop with no preview.

[shobet]

My partner is a music journalist and I let her talk.

"Seriously, no journo worth his or her candle would or should do that, it's a big NO NO. Truth to be told we all sold or handed on some promos but never before the release date or when it was stamped *promotion only* because that is a kiss of death.

I don't really know why the person did it, only explanation I have would be so damned naive and blue eyed, he/she must be new in the biz because that is giving yourself the kiss of death.

In case you want to handle it nicely, suggest immediate removal, in case you are pissed off, he violated a bunch of laws and unless he has explicit permission to release it, chances *might* be that a contract fell through because of the release (any friends in publishing?) and you could sue for damages."


So there you go, from the horses mouth.

[yard dawg]

Dude dont look at this in a bad way. It could become a great money maker if used correctly. Most bands do not make much on the cd. They make more doing live shows. I dont belive you are a major label artist so you wont have the marketing machine they have behind you. Look to pass out your music to locals who frequent the clubs in your country. Look to the colleges. See if you can find the person in charge of booking entertainment if there is such a beast in your part of the world. Here we have naca.org.. If you seriously want to get seen and make money playing live then find someone willing to go to the NACA conventions to market your band. If I had a band I was able to manage this is what I would do. Ive known engineers and managers who take their bands to this place and get gigs...

If youre music is great and the great unwashed masses like it they will tell friends. This will increase the fan base that would PAY to see a live show. The real money is in touring.

If I had an up and coming band I wouldnt worry so much about selling cds just yet. You want to get a fan base that will come see your live shows. You can sell or give away cds at the shows. Myspace has helped bands get their music heard by the masses. This in turn has caused a few bands to be able to make money touring small venues. You have to market yourself.

I dont like a music thief at all but you have to adapt to the market.





EDIT:

The way NACA works is you bring your cds to the conventions. Each college has representatives there looking for bands to play the colleges. They may only offer you $1000 to play BUT you can sell cds at the gig. You can also try to book gigs at the other colleges in the area.

Lets say you book Georgia Tech for a night and they offer you $1500. You can go to the other colleges in the Atlanta area that are at the NACA and try to book there. You can say I'll do it for $1000 because I am already in the area.. In one area you could earn a few thousand bucks in a few days in the ATL area. These arent actual numbers you'll see just an example. You may see better or worse depending on your how good you are.

[thetroy]

To take your argument to an extreme, paedophilia is ok as long as you're willing to accept the consequences?

Yeah it's a choice people can make, though if I were in charge I would probably apply some extreme consequences to those sorts of extreme actions. I think "cruel" punishments should be allowed for cruel crimes.

[Endrik]

I once had dreams to. To become a fucking rockstar, play on the biggest stadiums, get all the pussy you want yadda yadda.

Everyone who's involved in the music biz knows that it's not gonna happen. No new band is gonna buy Ferraris every day and mansions in Bel-Air.

All you can do is play clubs. I fucking hate clubs. I'm the kind of person who takes all or nothing. My second gig ever was in front of 6000 people... I was a young horny punk and thought the world is all opened. I have given up. I don't care anymore.
Those who don't mind the club career... then good luck. Just don't expect to play in The Garden every day and get platinum records.

[Bengal]

Why won't anyone answer the question?

If you can't afford it, why should you have it?

Please, give me an answer to that one.

And why is Troy the only one on the pro side? Come on guys, grow some balls. I know there are A LOT more of you out there that feel the same way he does. Don't let him be the only one arguing the pro side.

Concequeces?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/main3330186.shtml

Can you afford $220,000? I know I can't.

So if you get caught, don't expect sympathy.

[skorb]

this whole issue is pretty wild, think about back in the 80's buying cassettes and then cd's and who had any clue that in 20 years you could download all that from a PC? that blows my mind.

I'm an iTunes user so I generally get my stuff from there and have plenty of sales receipts in my email inbox to prove it. but I can also see the other side of the coin, in that filesharing has opened many people's minds to different music than they ordinarily would give any time/attention to if they had to shell out $$ for it, and that has led to more concert revenue for a lot of bands (including the new bands that form the opening acts on every single tour that comes through).

so while I buy my stuff from iTunes, I'll say this about filesharing - good music is not in peril and never will be. the corporate suits in the music "industry" who have raped us for years with $19 cd's with one good tune and 9 tracks of crap are the ones in peril. and somehow I'm not able to feel very sorry for the demise of that bloated delivery method (because that is all this is, a fight over delivery methodology and how to capture revenue from said delivery methodology).

[Bengal]

So it's the record companies fault that a band puts out a CD with 9 bad songs and 1 good song?

I always blamed the band.

[shobet]

Yeah it's a choice people can make, though if I were in charge I would probably apply some extreme consequences to those sorts of extreme actions. I think "cruel" punishments should be allowed for cruel crimes.

How do you make the definition? Where is the line? What's bad and what is really bad?

I don't have the mental alacrity to make those kinds of judgements.

Is speeding worse than fucking a kid? Lots would argue that the second crime is much worse than the first. However what if you ran a kid over when speeding, is that less or worse than fucking a child?

[Vass]

Yeah it's a choice people can make, though if I were in charge I would probably apply some extreme consequences to those sorts of extreme actions. I think "cruel" punishments should be allowed for cruel crimes.

Sorry, but this is silly and is an almost unbelievable misunderstanding of the role of law in society.

"deemed bad by a legislature"? The legislature codifies the violation. Murder was not "ok" until your local state yokels passed a law saying it wasn't.

You are building a perfect, self-feeding justification for yourself- You've already declared in an early post in this thread that there are no standards, and since there are no standards, there are no violations, just the capricious distribution of punishment. If the standards of right & wrong are simply opinions, then no standard exists. If no standard exists, then there is no right or wrong. Therefore, the individual decides for himself what is right or wrong.

(For Vass- This class was in sophmore year in college, bonghit #8, probably trying to convince some chick that society's view of chastity & whoreishness were just plain wrong & should be fought. at. every. opportunity.)

Perfect, except for the fact that it's sooooo goofy.

EDIT- Not attacking you on this, frankly I think you're probably having a little fun with everyone, jerking their chain & seeing how far you can take it.




Vass

[shobet]

Sorry, but this is silly and is an almost unbelievable misunderstanding of the role of law in society.

"deemed bad by a legislature"? The legislature codifies the violation. Murder was not "ok" until your local state yokels passed a law saying it wasn't.

You are building a perfect, self-feeding justification for yourself- You've already declared in an early post in this thread that there are no standards, and since there are no standards, there are no violations, just the capricious distribution of punishment. If the standards of right & wrong are simply opinions, then no standard exists. If no standard exists, then there is no right or wrong. Therefore, the individual decides for himself what is right or wrong.

(For Vass- This class was in sophmore year in college, bonghit #8, probably trying to convince some chick that society's view of chastity & whoreishness were just plain wrong & should be fought. at. every. opportunity.)

Perfect, except for the fact that it's sooooo goofy.

Vass

You're tongue is sweeter than a $1000 whore!

[Newc]

Why won't anyone answer the question?

If you can't afford it, why should you have it?

Please, give me an answer to that one.

And why is Troy the only one on the pro side? Come on guys, grow some balls. I know there are A LOT more of you out there that feel the same way he does. Don't let him be the only one arguing the pro side.

Concequeces?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/main3330186.shtml

Can you afford $220,000? I know I can't.

So if you get caught, don't expect sympathy.

Ok, you want another argument for the "pro" side?

I downloaded the 2 Chet Atkins/Les Paul "Guitar Monsters" albums a while back.

I then searched for hard copies to buy.

You know what I found?

Used ones.

It's out of print.

Neither Les nor Chet's estate would get any money, just the guy selling the CD.

Ergo, I didn't buy it.

Then I found the entire Les Paul/Mary Ford collection online, and downloaded a few tracks.

I searched for the CDs, and found a boxed set that was still in print, and which they would receive royalties from, so I bought it.

I downloaded the entire X-Japan catalog because all I had ever heard was the Blue Bloood album, then looked online for the CDs. All I found were used copies.

I'm not buying someone else's used CDs. That's not supporting the artist. They get no money from that.

However, if I do find new copies that do result in royalties for the artist, I'll buy them.


Downloading is not a victimless crime. There is no such thing as a victimless crime - someone, somewhere, will have physical results, be it direct loss of money (i.e. whoever pays for the studio time and production/manufacturing costs will not get that back in sales) or loss of business (read: none of their products were sold, which means they don't get the money to make another one).

It's a nice pipe dream that when the corrupt giants fall the record industry will be resurrected by "true believers" such as artists, and the industry will be run by artists, not lawyers and accountants who have no clue about the music and no concern for the artists, but the sad fact is that the people who see themselves as contributing to the demise of these giants are not going to say "hey, now that we've beaten the corporate greed giants we can go back to buying CDs".

They're going to say "I get free milk, why buy a cow?".