Filesharing - Give us a chance!

[tooslowhand]

Thanks for the response Vass, I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm not as much of a hippie as I sound.

Not everybody who downloads music falls into the category of "too poor to buy a CD", that's for sure. There are truly people who feel entitled to it for nothing. I'm just saying as a businessman, you can try your hardest to limit these people's access to your music but as an artist in the long run it might not be in your best interest when it comes to keeping people tuned into your music.

In other words, I don't think the argument is so much "Is it stealing?" because it's tough to argue that it isn't. My point is more about choosing your battles. I stand by my assertion that I would rather have my CD in the hands of someone who would appreciate it than someone who could just afford it, although the choice is never that cut and dried.

When tapes became obsolete, I found myself with a bunch of albums that needed to be replaced with CDs. So I bought a bunch of used CDs, pretty much all albums I had already bought on album and/or cassette, ripped each to my hard drive (which I understand is legal, to make one copy for personal use) and then sold the CDs, since they were all my property at that point anyway. Am I stealing the music? I already bought the tapes and have had years of enjoyment from them, and I knew all the songs by heart!!

That all being said, I was the biggest Metallica fan in the world and there is no way in hell I am buying their new album unless I get to hear it first. If I were ever to be a struggling artist, I would expect to have to give my music away to prove myself and attract attention to my shows to prove my worth to any prospective label. I would find that goal a hell of a lot easier to attain through downloads on the Internet than to pay some dink a bunch of money to make me a bunch of CDs and then go to the hassle of pushing them. But I guess when you've already paid the dink to make the CDs it's definitely irksome when someone changes your battle plan for you. But they are ultimately the customer and they dictate the market you need to be in.

[MOSHWITZ]

Find the journalist and give him hell bro. fuckin tool!

but wow,,all this old vrs young thing,,, back in the day old guys,,,,,we all copied a cassette or 20 for friends till they bought there own..and some didn't.. kinda the same shit its always been.

MOSHON
DAVE

[xenophobe]

I just did a Google on my band and found out that our album's available on filesharing.

The thing is, it's not out until August 22nd! Some rock journalist dude took an advanced copy of the album and shared it and is just eats me alive - Give us a damned chance! These days if Your first album doesn't make a profit You don't get to make a second one, so for us it's so vital to make a decent turnaround just to stay alive in the business...

If I was Metallica I'd be happy to see people sharing my album because they get to make a new album no matter what. But for us, this stuff could just end our career and I just hate feeling this #¤"%& helpless about it.

And the worst thing is, right now there isn't even an option to buy it legally since it isn't out for another month - which means we run the risk of saturating the market before we've even set off.

I'm so pissed off I can hardly type. I know it's inane not to believe Your stuff will end up online, but give us a damned chance!!

Rant over.

Filesharing is the only reason your band will get heard. And it's also the only reason you'll get any sales outside of Sweden.

It will also give you a larger fan base, so when you tour, you will have at least some people coming to see you.

If your band is good, that is.

You should applaud filesharing. It's the only reason Metal is popular again.

[Bengal]

It's cool my only point there was that there is no table to reverse. I never said it's a "right" thing to do, just that it works for me and I have not been convinced that it's "wrong" yet.

It could turn out to be morally wrong and I could end up being condemned to live in eternal damnation, but I doubt it. I doubt any of us will ever really know what's "right" anyway.

That's why I just do my thing and try not to pass judgement on others. Most of the time there's no good reason to believe they're any less "right" than myself.

Right on.

And lets not confuse downloading with buying a used CD. As I stated, the artist has already been paid once for that CD. Should they get a bit once it's sold on the used market? I don't think so.

But the record companies and some artists do. That will be next, you can almost bet on it.

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

Bengal, agreed about the system. Sadly though with the right amount of money, often it can be bucked.

the laws are what is suspect, not so much the system. look at how many women get mega bank when they get a divorce. the dude could have made the dollars before way before marriage, but could end up losing half with a split. Never understood vaginamony.

Also, a court appointed lawyer may not build a case like a high profile lawyer. I guess the A-Rod comes to mind. With big money involved, she gets the big guns due to the money to be made. it is a whole new ball game with millions to be had.

[Bengal]

Bengal, agreed about the system. Sadly though with the right amount of money, often it can be bucked.

the laws are what is suspect, not so much the system. look at how many women get mega bank when they get a divorce. the dude could have made the dollars before way before marriage, but could end up losing half with a split. Never understood vaginamony.

Also, a court appointed lawyer may not build a case like a high profile lawyer. I guess the A-Rod comes to mind. With big money involved, she gets the big guns due to the money to be made. it is a whole new ball game with millions to be had.

Sure, money can buy everything. Got Vince Neil off with a slap on the wrist. Sadly, it's always been that way. It's just a bad by-product of a system that pretty much works. Pretty much, not all the time.

As for the divorce thing, I think it's swinging back the other way. I'm reading more and more about males getting more than they use to in divorce cases including custody. Custody is a hard thing to assign, how do you rule against the woman who carried the babies for 9 months? By proving she's no good, that's how. But I think the judicial system is correcting itself when it comes to this issue.

[SEEGERMANY]

we all copied a cassette or 20 for friends till they bought there own..and some didn't

False. I've always bought my 45's, LP's, cassettes, 8-tracks, and CDs. If Joe Blow wanted to hear Deep Purple's "BURN," I'd let him borrow the original. If he copied it, that was beyond my control. The only downside for me was I'm missing a few originals!

[Bengal]

I taped albums but to play in the car. I didn't like taped copies. I always wanted an original.

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

i download from internet radio using radiotracker

http://radiotracker.com/en/free_mp3_...ads/index.html

[zeegler]

In the end, none of this really makes any difference. Here's why:

1 - As has been said several times already. The vast majority of folks downloading music would most likely never buy the stuff anyway.

2 - History shows that even before the internet and filesharing came about, there were thousands of fantastic bands that never made it anywhere. Luck has more to do with success, than any other factor. You simply can not for a second believe that enough people are going to walk into a record store, and buy your CD having NEVER EVEN HEARD IT, in order to make you successful. Playing live, and garnering a following and reputation helps. Getting your CD into the right hands helps.

3 - Bands don't make money from CD sales anyway. Record companies do, but bands receive a pathetic token from each unit sold.

That said, it's up to the bands to decide whether they are for or against filesharing, and allowing their music to be distributed free of charge or not. It's going to be done whether you like it or not unfortunatley, so maybe the best answer, is to accept it, and think about the positives. If your band is exceptional, in the end, it doesn't matter if you make one red cent from selling your CD, because people will talk about you, and recommend you to others, and it WILL result in bigger things. If I ever finish my own CD, I would be honoured if thousands of people download it. Steal from me, please. Anyway, not that any of this justifies stealing, or breaking the law, but there are positives, and some artists realize that.

[Spivonious]

Just commenting on some things mentioned here:

If you play a cover song, the venue is responsible for paying the performance fee to the copyright owners. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that's how it works.

If I could make $40k a year for laying down 40 minutes of music and touring for 6 months, I would totally do it. That's a lot better than staring at a computer 40 hours a week.

Vass, if he's downloading music and not living at his parents' house or at college, then he's probably stealing his neighbor's wireless internet.

The listening-before-buying argument was valid 5 years ago, but I don't know of any band these days that doesn't have some sort of website with a selection of songs to listen to on it.

Interesting point on music going to crap once recordings came about. It definitely made us a bit lazier. I don't think we'll ever see another Beethoven, or Chopin, or Vivaldi, or Copland. Why bother creating music when I can just download whatever I feel like in a matter of seconds?

Finally, I think the illegal downloaders are not having a huge effect on CD sales. I think that more people are going through services like iTunes to get their singles. My father-in-law probably spends about $20 a week on iTunes. Speaking of iTunes, they rip off the artists more than the big labels do.

New guy - I won't buy the new Metallica without hearing it either. But lucky for us, they've made some bits of it available on their website. Don't remember the address, but there's a thread about it on here somewhere.

[audiophile]

I used to 'collect' mp3s. I wanted a nice library of all my favorite music.
This is also all 'dated' music, mainly 80's, meh some 90's, 2000+ not really, the music scene has changed. I was a leech, and didn't really share what I had.
It grew old listening to stuff I owned or downloaded, repetition killed it.

I own only a couple of CD's (Which I haven't listened to in years), all my purchases were cassettes and are mostly shot now, not only have I no way to play them anyways.

I stick to radio now, local broadcast because my car cannot currently stream metal genre stations from internet sources. Would I pay to have Sirius so I could have a metal channel? Nope.

http://shoutcast.com/directory/index.phtml?sgenre=Metal

My favorite is Pirate Radio KQLZ Los Angeles

But radio, the variety, and especially the complete randomness of playlists on some favorited online radio channels is my only source of auditory pleasure now. I kinda like the outta my hands bit of it, aside from a quick station change when a Nirvana song comes on.



seems like the appropriate thread for this...heh

[phill_up]

I have mixed feelings about fileshare. It can be an excellent marketing tool for some bands. Fileshare has exposed me to music that I would have never heard. I have bought 3 Obituary CD’s because of fileshare.

I also went to the Jägermeister Tour which featured Chimaira, Fear Factory, and Slipknot at $75 a ticket x 3 because of exposure to these bands from fileshare.


You can’t compare beer to a CD, because there should be consistency with beer. If you buy a 12 pack and there are 11 shitty beers that isn’t cool. All beers should be equally satisfying. Should the same hold true for CD’s? Every song should be a favorite. What sucks is paying $15 for a CD that only has one song that you like. Those days are over with. Thank You internet for 99 cent music downloads.

[Endrik]

we all know that record companies made money from the album sales and artists from touring and merch.

a lot of times artists got screwed by labels.... here's some calculations by Steve Albini http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

now record company's are getting into the touring and merch thing.

artists are getting screwed even more

[Endrik]

I wanted to reply to this post seperatley.

We are not living in the Days of the Fostex 4-track. Home Recording has advanced lightyears in the last 10 years.

I have heard stuff recorded on Pro-tools in home studios that is easily identical in quality to the Big 100,000 dollar studios.

If I was a band I would rather pocket the recording costs the label would give me and do it in a home studio with a lesser known producer, that I know can be done easily for under 100k and sound excellent.Heck! I bet I could get some kid from Berklee that is graduating in production and record a excellent sounding album for under 20K.

This is another side effect of the industry changing. Big studios are going to go the way of the dinosaur. Home production quality is very close to the commercial quality standard. To pay in the six figures for an album recording will be viewed as insanity in the years to come.

I don't agree.

While there are some well done albums in home environment there's still a big differece.

Some stuff is cool with the DIY way but I and many others love albums with great production values.

You can't learn how to be a producer in school... good producers are just born. You can learn engineering and mixing but not producing.

Producers are visionaries.

While you can get a pretty good sound at home... it doesn't guarantee a good production at all.

Sound is only a very small part of production.

Artists themselves are very bad as producers. (with a couple of exceptions... Jimmy Page and stuff)

You can make a decent sounding record at home but with no hi end studio and producer you are no way gonna get such a production wich are on Peter Gabriel or Pink Floyd albums.