Filesharing - Give us a chance!

[AK47]

Do yall PRO music stealers know how much a major studio charges per hour? The ones I have been in start at $2000 a day and go up from there. A professional mastering studio costs from $100,000 to $200,000 just for the gear.

The average cost to record a major label cd in a professional studio such as blackbird in Nashville is around $350,000 to $500,000.

A major label producer usually gets $100,000 or more up front plus points. Session musicians get union scale and some get more. Brent Mason commands tripple scale on a major label project. Thats around $180 an hr or more.

These people deserve to be paid and if you keep stealing their work they will be forced to NOT produce cds.

I wanted to reply to this post seperatley.

We are not living in the Days of the Fostex 4-track. Home Recording has advanced lightyears in the last 10 years.

I have heard stuff recorded on Pro-tools in home studios that is easily identical in quality to the Big 100,000 dollar studios.

If I was a band I would rather pocket the recording costs the label would give me and do it in a home studio with a lesser known producer, that I know can be done easily for under 100k and sound excellent.Heck! I bet I could get some kid from Berklee that is graduating in production and record a excellent sounding album for under 20K.

This is another side effect of the industry changing. Big studios are going to go the way of the dinosaur. Home production quality is very close to the commercial quality standard. To pay in the six figures for an album recording will be viewed as insanity in the years to come.

[Bengal]

That's raises another good point... Bengal, have you ever performed a cover song? Have you ever viewed performances on Youtube? If you have done either, technically that is stealing as well. Get off your high horse...

Please, that is the weakest arguement yet. Yep, I've looked at stuff on youtube. Have I ripped it into my iTunes and burned it on CD? Nope. That's pretty weak.

And no, I don't play out. So that doesn't hold water either.

If following the law is being on a "high horse", fine by me.

And refer to my other point. I love to hear people justify illegal behavoir. That's why I ask about the "pro" side.

Your arguement however is quite weak.

[Bengal]

Steve,
I agree somewhat. If I could return PS3 games, I'd buy more too. Same with albums and DVD's. I can't tell you how many movies I've bought that I thought sucked. Oh well, what can you do?

Who thinks it sucks does matter. Should the store just take everyone at their word? "This CD sucks, I want my money back!". Who's fault is it that the CD sucked? The store? The record company or the band?

Why should you have the right to get your money back when you didn't do your homework? (Finding out if the band sucks or not)

And who's to say it's really good but you riped it into your iTunes before returning it? That's the big question.

[khabibissell]

That's raises another good point... Bengal, have you ever performed a cover song? Have you ever viewed performances on Youtube? If you have done either, technically that is stealing as well. Get off your high horse...

[khabibissell]

How am I going to get in an arguement when 90% of the posters see it my way?

Believe me, I don't have to try that hard to get in an arguement. All I have to do is go home.

Defend it all you want, it's still stealing. No way around that.

If that's trying to "start an argument", step on up.

You keep saying "I know there's more of you on the pro side". If that isn't looking for an argument, I don't know what is.

I'm not arguing. I think that the easy availability of media has pros and cons. I agree with some of the cons posted, and I stated what I feel some of the pros are. I can also see Troy's point in that if he couldn't have afforded to buy the music he has in his private collection anyway, the music company or band hasn't really potential revenue from HIM. Has it?

[UFORocks]

And I said before, who is to decide if it's good or not? The person that bought it? I think their opinion is somewhat suspect. So then who?

Well, it's an opinion so it doesnt matter. Just because someone doesnt agree with my "taste" or lack there of should not barre me from returning something.

As far as I know you can't do that with DVD's and Video Games either. Other mediums that are ripped off all the time.

I don't see an issue with not being able to return CD's. Makes sense to me.

I guess my point here, not clearly stated - I admit, is that if I had the saftey net of being able to return a CD if I didn't like it then I know that I would have purchsed more CDs over the years. File sharing negates the need to return a CD because I can now listen to the music before I buy it.

In the end file sharing can lead to both increased sales due to better exposure of the music, but it can also lead to decreased sales because people can decide before they buy if they want to spend the money or not.

-Steve

[AK47]

What if you use Youtube to listen to an artist's material? Is that stealing I mean someone could have stolen the music/video and uploaded it you dont know? Should I cover my Eyes?

Also when you hear a song on the radio do we really know that they(DJ/Station) have permission to broadcast that band's song? Should I cover my ears?

I buy music if its good and I hear or see it somewhere else. I always believed CD sound is superior to MP3s you can download. I like to pay for good quality instead of less for free.

I tried to find the Perfect Circle Acoustic sessions everywhere. Could not find it so I downloaded it. I am not going to deprive myself of good music and media that is available if someone else perceives it as stealing.

Times change and the industry and people have to adapt. If you dont you are only depriving yourself.

[shobet]

I can't do buggery, my piles would bleed....

[Bengal]

I like buggery, that's illegal in some of your states I believe, as is fellatio!

Michael Moore did a great bit on his TV show The Aweful Truth about sodomy laws. He took the "Sodomobile", filled with homosexual men, to every state that had those laws and broke them right in the RV.

Fuckin' great.

[shobet]

I should add that the fellatio bit I like to receive, not to give.

[shobet]

I like buggery, that's illegal in some of your states I believe, as is fellatio!

[Bengal]

It's really the "pick and choose" society in which we live.

Christians get to pick and choose what sins they want to believe in and which they don't.

Illegal downloaders get to pick and choose the laws they want to follow.

No real difference.

I post alot because I love to hear people defend illeagal activity. I love it.

Because it doesn't hold water.

Oh yeah, and I'm bored at work. LOVE posting on the company dime.

EDIT: And I bet I type faster than most of you dudes.

[shobet]

Do yall PRO music stealers know how much a major studio charges per hour? The ones I have been in start at $2000 a day and go up from there. A professional mastering studio costs from $100,000 to $200,000 just for the gear.

The average cost to record a major label cd in a professional studio such as blackbird in Nashville is around $350,000 to $500,000.

A major label producer usually gets $100,000 or more up front plus points. Session musicians get union scale and some get more. Brent Mason commands tripple scale on a major label project. Thats around $180 an hr or more.

These people deserve to be paid and if you keep stealing their work they will be forced to NOT produce cds.

What I would like to add as well is, even though the myspace model of the music industry seems to have freed up people to make music that they want to play. Can those artists afford the top line studios with their top line sounds and the producers that go with that? Can some spud from the backwaters afford to pay for Abbey Road for 2 months whilst they record? I doubt the record companies will be willing to take the risk of paying an advance for something like that? Conversely you could argue you don't need a great studio while you have pro tools on your computer, you can do it all and sound just as great in your underpants sitting in your bedroom! Swings and roundabouts.

It's all very complimicated and I have no idea where it's all heading. I can see the record companies grabbing more of the gig and merch money in the near future to compensate for the lost revenues of the albums they're not selling.

The thing with the iTunes model as well is that Apple and the companies are still doing ok out of it. From talking to friends of my better half, they say they're worse off %age wise than they were when the old album model was the norm. But having made their money in the 90s' they're not really that effected by it.

I dunno, who knows what the future holds for musicians...

[Bengal]

I love how Bengal is trying SO hard to get into an argument in this thread.

How am I going to get in an argument when 90% of the posters see it my way?

Believe me, I don't have to try that hard to get in an argument. All I have to do is go home.

Defend it all you want, it's still stealing. No way around that.

If that's trying to "start an argument", step on up.

[khabibissell]

I'm pro filesharing, but to an extent. I wouldn't want to hurt anyones livelyhood, but the easy availability of downloading music we've enjoyed for the past 10 yrs or so actually works both ways IMO. I've downloaded stuff in the past and if I liked it, I bought the CD (to name two examples Nevermore and Symphony X). I look at filesharing as free publicity and an easy way to get your stuff heard. People will be more likely to check it out if there is less "risk"... In this case financial. I highly doubt a new band is going to get a contract that is advantages to anyone other than the record company anyway... Like stated above, merch and live shows are where most of the money is made. Established bands will tell you the same thing.

Like Newc, the only time I've downloaded whole albums is when the stuff is either no longer available or is a bootleg of some sort.

I love how Bengal is trying SO hard to get into an argument in this thread.