Filesharing - Give us a chance!

[phill_up]

thetroy, you have taken a lot of heat here my brother and you have dealt with it well. Hats off to you Sir.

[thetroy]

and you are fucking weak for jumping on my throat and making personal comments when you feel that your argumentation skills are laking
wannabe is someone who says something about himself/herself that's not true... I haven't lied... some people on this board know me personally... they can back me up...
meaningless assertions with no facts behinds them??? give me a fucking break... what the heck are you doing?! for example you are calling my amp imaginary... wow.. that must be a well proven fact
want to hear it.... come and fucking listen... or everything must be handed to you on a fucking silver plate dear mister

You were not presenting an argument at all. "This is how it is. Trust me, I KNOW people who KNOW stuff man." is NOT an argument. Since you don't have an argument, I figured I'd go along with your style and take shots at you.

It's just funny how you take shots at anyone and anything (see: Necrophagist thread) but all of the sudden it's a big deal if something negative is directed toward you.

Recall that on here, you are defined by the sum of your posts to the vast majority of members. Your posts show that you are good at name dropping and acting like you know what you're talking about, but when push comes to shove you don't know much beyond that (none of us know very much, but few are willing to admit it).

I for one don't know if filesharing is responsible for the drop in CD sales, but I contend that you guys claiming it is responsible do not really know either. If you did, you would have shown us 12 pages ago.

[Endrik]

You were not presenting an argument at all. "This is how it is. Trust me, I KNOW people who KNOW stuff man." is NOT an argument. Since you don't have an argument, I figured I'd go along with your style and take shots at you.

so knowing some people is a bad thing... hmmm... okay

my style? I didn't take shots at anyone? my style my ass

It's just funny how you take shots at anyone and anything (see: Necrophagist thread) but all of the sudden it's a big deal if something negative is directed toward you.

and again I take shot at something....
in that thread I expressed my personal opinion about that music and musicianship.... you have the freedom to disagree.... what sounds bad to me can sound good to you and vice versa
did I got personal with some members for liking it?... no... I argued not made personal insults
did I made personal comments about the band members... no... I don't know them personally
did I talked about you somewhere?.... no... do you feel left out or something?

Recall that on here, you are defined by the sum of your posts to the vast majority of members. Your posts show that you are good at name dropping and acting like you know what you're talking about, but when push comes to shove you don't know much beyond that (none of us know very much, but few are willing to admit it).

So you are saying I don't know what I am talking about.... and you and anyone else don't know what they are talking about... yet you think you have figured me out so well...
I haven't written here about how to fix a car because I'm not good at that.
I haven't written about your personality because I don't know you.
What I have written is based on my own personal experiences and whatnot. If you don't like what I say... ignore it... this what you are doing right now is petty... I don't know in what subjects you are good at... but I sure know that it's not "me" because last time I checked you don't have personal experiences with me.

I for one don't know if filesharing is responsible for the drop in CD sales, but I contend that you guys claiming it is responsible do not really know either. If you did, you would have shown us 12 pages ago.

so you admit you don't know anything about the subject
and then you assume that no one else does
assume all you want
I assume you haven't even tried searching for some info about the subject

[thetroy]

Forget the personal shit. I probably went too far with that line.

If you don't want to be involved in a debate, that's fine. But don't expect to be able to throw out assertions and not be asked to back them up. That's how a debate works.

If you claim that filesharing has in fact caused a decline in CD sales, no one should believe you until you provide evidence for that claim.

If you have conclusive knowledge on the subject, I am genuinely interested to read it. The only "info" I've found is all editorial style filled with a lot of opinion and very little fact.

Again I ask you: If there is conclusive evidence that filesharing has caused the decline in sales, why are the record companies not fighting pirates tooth and nail? Why do they only attack a small percentage of us and, even then, usually settle out of court if they have such a bullet-proof case?

[bibz]

I just made a copy of this thread, I'm sellin bootlegs of it out the back of my hatch $5 any takers?

[Endrik]

Forget the personal shit. I probably went too far with that line.

If you don't want to be involved in a debate, that's fine. But don't expect to be able to throw out assertions and not be asked to back them up. That's how a debate works.

If you claim that filesharing has in fact caused a decline in CD sales, no one should believe you until you provide evidence for that claim.

If you have conclusive knowledge on the subject, I am genuinely interested to read it. The only "info" I've found is all editorial style filled with a lot of opinion and very little fact.

Again I ask you: If there is conclusive evidence that filesharing has caused the decline in sales, why are the record companies not fighting pirates tooth and nail? Why do they only attack a small percentage of us and, even then, usually settle out of court if they have such a bullet-proof case?

it's pretty difficult to find evidence on real life conversations and whatnot.... basically you can question everything that's written on this board... how do I know if it's true if someone said he met Warren DeMartini... or how do I know if someone really tried out some old Hiwatt amp?

that being said... there was a thread about half a year ago about record companies, industry and illeagal downloads.

I do remember there were many links posted of statements what is happening... I think I even posted something my self... something about Rick Rubin who tries to find solution for what's happening.

I can't find it... maybe I can find some of the links that were posted and whatnot later.

I just made a copy of this thread, I'm sellin bootlegs of it out the back of my hatch $5 any takers?

I'll take 2. But to make this a real bootleg we have to copyright all this text... kinda like when Bukowski wrote a letter to the post office and ended it with

"Copies of this statement have been retained for distribution to the press, television and other mass communication media."

[shobet]

I just made a copy of this thread, I'm sellin bootlegs of it out the back of my hatch $5 any takers?

Fuck that I can download it for free on the internet!

[Endrik]

ok, here's the Rick Rubin thing... long but a good read

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html?_r=3&oref=login&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

here's the Edison Media Research http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/new...g-music-sales/

here's what's happening in Europe http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_news/20040330.html

some stuff from both sides... also look down for many other posts... a lot of businesses are closing

http://www.almightyretail.com/design/newpress.php?incpage=phillyburbs

I see If I can find the article about record companies debts later

also I would recommend to search for interviews with Gene Simmons... we all know how Gene is but one thing is for sure... he knows the entertainment business/industry inside out being a highly successful businessman himself.

there are many websites wich claim that illeagal downloading hasn't hurt anything or it has improved record sales or whatnot... you can freely belive them

I personally just look at what's happening in the music world. No new bands are getting to live "the rockstar life" no stadium tours, no wealth, record companies now want part of touring and merch income, businesses, studios etc. are closing etc.

And notice I haven't said on wich side I am. I find good and weak points on both sides.
Record companies are greedy... they try to get their money no matter what... it's business... that's all. And when people don't buy that many records anymore... the labels are gonna increase cd prices and also give less precentage of the income to the artist. Also when they are trying to get their share of touring income and merch sales to get their profit wich they are used to, that leaves even less money for the artists. The artists are getting screwed more and more.

Downloads indeed help to spread the word... and help people to discover all kinds of new stuff. It can help some unknown artists.... It has helped.
But notice pretty much all those bands are on the indie level. They aren't buying Aston Martins and playing at Wembley Stadion.
Some people are fine that bands have club careers and underground following... a lot of people are not fine with that... and I'm one of them.

[Accept2]

Im sure when the car started showing up all over the roads, the horse buggy companies whined too. Some of them changed their business while others whined about it and went bankrupt. Industries change, and people dont place much value on this redundant industry which peaked years ago. They can either change or whine about it. Those who change will stick around for the next horrah, and those who sit there and whine will be bankrupt. I am one who says bring on the changes to the industry. You guys can sit and whine about it.........

[zeegler]

Im sure when the car started showing up all over the roads, the horse buggy companies whined too. Some of them changed their business while others whined about it and went bankrupt. Industries change, and people dont place much value on this redundant industry which peaked years ago. They can either change or whine about it. Those who change will stick around for the next horrah, and those who sit there and whine will be bankrupt. I am one who says bring on the changes to the industry. You guys can sit and whine about it.........

Well said Kurt.

[Accept2]

Well Paul, there are some people in the industry who are looking at BluRay with wide open eyes. They see the video game industry that rose from the ashes to be hip and they see an opportunity to change their own product to one which people just have to buy. If enough people see it, we could see a change to the old 100 year old plan of releasing a 45 minute album every year or so and see something entirely different and entirely cool................

[Bengal]

Who is "sitting and whining"?

It's easy to use inflamitory remarks like that but I have seen no one "whining" about anything.

Debating the legal issues of downloading, sure. But not whining.

EDIT: And when as the video game industry been so down that it was able to "rise from the ashes"? Video games have done very well since the Atari 2600.

[Accept2]

Maybe you should reread what I wrote about following laws. You can write all you want about whatever you believe and try to convert us like some televangelist, but any industry who blames their customers for their decline deserves to die off. Good riddance to those guys. They are too self important to recognize that they grow more and more irrelevant everyday..........

[Accept2]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080124-growth-of-gaming-in-2007-far-outpaces-movies-music.html

Heres the stats. Notice how video game sales are taking up the slack of music sales. Its not file shareing thats killing the industry. The money is simply going to where people see value...........

[Bengal]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ies-music.html

Heres the stats. Notice how video game sales are taking up the slack of music sales. Its not file shareing thats killing the industry. The money is simply going to where people see value...........

Video games are hot right now, do doubt. My my assertion is they always have been. There really was no time since the late 70's to early 80's when the video game market was stale. Since the introduction of Pong, video games have been the hot thing to have.

But I agree that music should look at what other mediums are doing. But if you think that the music industry is going to Blu-Ray, I would highly doubt it.

Blu-Ray itself doesn't sell worth jack. It did better than Hi-Def DVD but it's still not burning up the market. People don't want to re-buy movies the already have, movies that look pretty damn good on regular DVD.

I would bet the CD market would react about the same way.