Filesharing - Give us a chance!

[Bengal]

Maybe you should reread what I wrote about following laws. You can write all you want about whatever you believe and try to convert us like some televangelist, but any industry who blames their customers for their decline deserves to die off. Good riddance to those guys. They are too self important to recognize that they grow more and more irrelevant everyday..........

I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm glad everyone here thinks I'm so damn influencial but that's not the case.

I stated that no one is "sitting and whining" like you said. Somewhat inflammitory statement there. So I called you on it.

You call me a "televangelist" in response.

But I still say, no one is "sitting and whining" about anything. You might not like what I say but that doesn't mean it's "whining".

[Bengal]

You guys can sit and whine about it.........

Did I misread this sentence?

[thetroy]

ok, here's the Rick Rubin thing... long but a good read

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html?_r=3&oref=login&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

here's the Edison Media Research http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/new...g-music-sales/

here's what's happening in Europe http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_news/20040330.html

some stuff from both sides... also look down for many other posts... a lot of businesses are closing

http://www.almightyretail.com/design/newpress.php?incpage=phillyburbs

I see If I can find the article about record companies debts later

also I would recommend to search for interviews with Gene Simmons... we all know how Gene is but one thing is for sure... he knows the entertainment business/industry inside out being a highly successful businessman himself.

there are many websites wich claim that illeagal downloading hasn't hurt anything or it has improved record sales or whatnot... you can freely belive them

I personally just look at what's happening in the music world. No new bands are getting to live "the rockstar life" no stadium tours, no wealth, record companies now want part of touring and merch income, businesses, studios etc. are closing etc.

And notice I haven't said on wich side I am. I find good and weak points on both sides.
Record companies are greedy... they try to get their money no matter what... it's business... that's all. And when people don't buy that many records anymore... the labels are gonna increase cd prices and also give less precentage of the income to the artist. Also when they are trying to get their share of touring income and merch sales to get their profit wich they are used to, that leaves even less money for the artists. The artists are getting screwed more and more.

Downloads indeed help to spread the word... and help people to discover all kinds of new stuff. It can help some unknown artists.... It has helped.
But notice pretty much all those bands are on the indie level. They aren't buying Aston Martins and playing at Wembley Stadion.
Some people are fine that bands have club careers and underground following... a lot of people are not fine with that... and I'm one of them.

I read the Rubin article, but it just assumes that filesharing is hurting things without any explanation. All they have is a one-line which reads:

"Rubin has a bigger idea. To combat the devastating impact of file sharing, he, like others in the music business (Doug Morris and Jimmy Iovine at Universal, for instance), says that the future of the industry is a subscription model, much like paid cable on a television set. "

The article also blames Apple for taking away sales with the iTunes store and iPods.

The study looks interesting, though it is over 5 years old. I'll look at the rest in more detail tomorrow.

[phill_up]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ies-music.html

Heres the stats. Notice how video game sales are taking up the slack of music sales. Its not file shareing thats killing the industry. The money is simply going to where people see value...........

Like Filling Yo' Car up Wit' Gasoline!

[yard dawg]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ies-music.html

Heres the stats. Notice how video game sales are taking up the slack of music sales. Its not file shareing thats killing the industry. The money is simply going to where people see value...........

Yes extra money is going to video games and dvds BUT it still doesnt justify breaking copyright laws and stealing someone elses intellectual property and illegally reproducing and distributing now does it?

I really dont care if the recording industry is going down or up. I too am tired of the labels making a cd with one good song and 9 fills. I simply choose to get the good one from itunes for a buck. I dont go out and steal it. I dont like the way the labels set up contracts but stealing their property isnt the way to fix it. I dont like alot of things about the music industry but stealing an artists music wont fix it.

If you people who illegally get music think the labels will just ignore it then youre dilusional. They are already working with politicians to develope legislation that will stop this practice. These new laws will hurt the ones legally buying the msuic too. The corporations own the labels. They own the computer companys. They own the political leaders. its only a matter of time before we see the illegal activity stopped with stricter laws.

[phill_up]

Can we blame it on Obama ?

[phill_up]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html

[wibble]

Yes extra money is going to video games and dvds BUT it still doesnt justify breaking copyright laws and stealing someone elses intellectual property and illegally reproducing and distributing now does it?

I really dont care if the recording industry is going down or up. I too am tired of the labels making a cd with one good song and 9 fills. I simply choose to get the good one from itunes for a buck. I dont go out and steal it. I dont like the way the labels set up contracts but stealing their property isnt the way to fix it. I dont like alot of things about the music industry but stealing an artists music wont fix it.

If you people who illegally get music think the labels will just ignore it then youre dilusional. They are already working with politicians to develope legislation that will stop this practice. These new laws will hurt the ones legally buying the msuic too. The corporations own the labels. They own the computer companys. They own the political leaders. its only a matter of time before we see the illegal activity stopped with stricter laws.

I`m not sure here that anyones talking about copying and distributing, both myself and troy download for our own benefit, not to sell on etc. Troys already said he`s a leech, downloads but doesn`t upload, i`m the same so not sure that aspect is relevant to this discussion.

"I dont like alot of things about the music industry but stealing an artists music wont fix it."
We`re not trying to fix it, nor boycotting the publishers etc. Just doing what works for us.

On your last point, i personally don`t feel its something they can `fix` and stop. There`s more than one way to skin a cat so to say! Sure they can block torrent sites and prosecute the odd downloader, but when you`ve access to private FTP`s, NNTP and direct file transfers, its kinda difficult to stop without kicking someone offline totally. Even then it only limits the downloaders slightly, as theres other ways/means of transferring files as i`m sure you know anyway.

I think Radiohead had the right idea with their `pay us what you think its worth` downloadable album, if you had the chance to preview the cd first, then pay say within say 7 days, that`d work well imo. Would need to be DRM free tho as the market is slowly realising.

[LouSiffer]

I am not saying I DL, but, if I did.... I probably wouldn't care much.

A good band or movie I have to have....its bought without question, I like the artwork and the liner notes. One hit wonders.... its a free for all.

For me, it all goes back to when CDs first came out and the public was convinced by the music companies that if we spent sick amounts of money converting from tapes to CD, the CD's would eventually become as cheap as tapes. CD's can be made MUCH cheaper than a cassette as we all know. Well, the prices went up instead of down. So, like everyone else, I have even thousands more of my money invested into media and devices.

I know they had the class action suit where you got re-imbursed something like 25-50 bucks. Screw that, I was set back thousands because they told us a lie. $50.00 to me is an insult.

If you buy a CD, the terms and conditions are inside the case. Once I get home and unwrap it to the point I can see the terms and conditions, I can no longer return it to the store. Not my fault. I went to a music store to buy a CD, not a legal agreement. The record company won't give me a refund because they assume I ripped it when I got home. Those T&C's were inserted without giving me fair warning. This is a point I am surprised no one has ever brought up in a suit. -Lou

[Bengal]

Have the price of CD's gone up since they have come out?

I seem to remember paying $14.99 when they first came out. I'm paying that much now.

But maybe my memory is off.

[skorb]

Im sure when the car started showing up all over the roads, the horse buggy companies whined too. Some of them changed their business while others whined about it and went bankrupt. Industries change, and people dont place much value on this redundant industry which peaked years ago. They can either change or whine about it. Those who change will stick around for the next horrah, and those who sit there and whine will be bankrupt. I am one who says bring on the changes to the industry. You guys can sit and whine about it.........

that is precisely the dynamic that is occurring within this whole development.

we don't see many elevator operators these days sitting on a little corner seat in the elevator to take you up to the 10th floor either, do we? that went out in the 1940's. put a lot of men out of work too.

technology makes some things obsolete while opening vast new vistas of possibility for the truly creative among us. if these abjectly uncreative dicks at the RIAA and the record companies driving all their Mercedes' and Lamborghini's think they had that gravy train forever, well guess what, their time is over. they did not produce anything, they just leeched off the artists and the public while adding little value other than a monopoly on money and high-quality studios.

and regarding Endrik's points about new artists (even good ones) not getting to buy the Ferrari any more, well I hear you man, but who ever said that playing music was a guarantee of that kind of sick wealth? frankly the music industry has been vastly over-rewarded for what they really bring to the table overall, this is really just a correction, as happens in all markets when things get too lopsided in one direction.

[phill_up]

+1 for skorb