Anyone know about the Pell Grant? Some questions.

[GWARGHOUL]

Rule of thumb - DG KNOWS ALL.

[Newc]

I'm not going anywhere near I.T. (network admin, etc etc) - it's either video game programmer or I've wasted my money and time.

I've got to do something for the rest of my life, and it may as well be something related to what I enjoy doing, making a product I actually use, so it's either sweeping up Shannon's sawdust in Corona or making video games.


Tim - Actually, none. I did make it a point to ask the "recruiter" what programming knowledge I would need for the GSP program, and he said "none - we teach you everything you need to know".

I just hope it's not a front for enlisting in the Military, unless they WANT to see how you're supposed to fight when the other guy calls Holy War on you

[TommyD]

Anyone know about the Pell Grant? Some questions

> Newc,I qualified for Pell,along with the Tennessee Lottery scholarships. The Pell I get is roughly 1400 per session,which covers my tuition and gets me a refund check for close to 800 every session.

The main reason I qualified is because they check into your finances,and in my case,the fact that my child support is paid regularly. If I didn't have 2x child support,I wouldn't qualify.

I go to the Technology Center in Newbern. The instructor Jeff Hogue,is a guitar player too. Tommy D.

[dg]

Newc, have you looked into audio engineering as a career? Seems like something you have an interest & aptitude in.

[Newc]

Well, the only problem with a career in studio work is that home studios are taking over, and there's no room behind the console in the few remaining studios for newbs.

Tommy - I have no such expenses (thankfully ) so I can't claim any "hardship", unless they take pity on me for my credit card bill

[hippietim]

Tim - Actually, none. I did make it a point to ask the "recruiter" what programming knowledge I would need for the GSP program, and he said "none - we teach you everything you need to know".

Dude, I'll be blunt here. I mean no offense at all. But it is incredibly unlikely you are going to learn what it takes to be a moderately competent game/simulation programmer by doing the 3 year BS degree from DeVry. This sort of development is very difficult. Game/simulation programming requires advanced skills in math, phsyics, asynchronous/multi-threaded programming and design, remote/embedded/emulator debugging, and much more. This is not entry level stuff at all.

I've been doing this for 25 years. I got started writing MIDI software to control my synthesizers for fun as a teenager. And over the years I have worked on Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, Marine Corp logistics systems, Marine corp simulations for deployment sustainment, Navy AEGIS radar systems, wierd embedded device systems, operating systems, portable audio devices, web browsers, etc. I was even going to work on the Xbox at one point but decided to move back to the east coast instead. I may suck as a guitar player and be a pain in the ass on the boards, but I do know a lot about software development and what it takes to be successful.

Newc, obviously I only know you from the board but my impression is that you are a bright and hard working person that would in fact make a good programmer. Just so you know, I've interviewed some DeVry graduates - they were NOT good. They were in no way prepared to be professional developers. I am very skeptical of this GSP program. My instincts tell me you would be throwing your money away and that you'd be much better off going through a traditionaly computer science program where you will learn the fundamentals about data structures, concurrent programming, algorithms, etc. My recommendation would be to take some courses at your local community college - I don't know about the ones in your area but the community college system where I grew up in VA was excellent.

[iced_earth]

Newc, have you done any research into the life of a game programmer? When I graduated 9 years ago with a BS in Computer Science, it was kind of a dream of mine too. What I found out is game development companies tend to exploit their employees and its not glamourous at all. 60-80 hours for an average workweek, and that goes up once the game is approaching a deadline. That, and the work you end up doing seemed to be more tedious than fun.

I would look into hippietim's suggestion and see if any local community colleges offer beginning programming classes, intro to Java or C++ type classes and data structures. Get your feet wet a little and see if you like it.

[GWARGHOUL]

Off to Roberto-Venn I say!

[Stinkbug]

I agree with Tim on many of his points.

If you go to Roberto-Venn give me a call I will buy you a beer or two. I have often thought of taking their amp building shourt course. I would love to do the guitar course, but it doesn't really work for people that work full time.

[Newc]

Thanks Tim. I know you're an experienced programmer, and you've been in the biz for quite some time, and I'll trust your opinion on this.

The more I mull it (mullet ) over, it does seem "too good to be true" that so much knowlege will be implanted in a scant 3 or 4 years, and that I'll walk into a $40K+ job.

I'm gonna keep looking around.

[hippietim]

Newc - if you want to discuss this feel free to PM me and we can talk anytime. I do believe that in a couple years of attending a community college and some dilligence on your part you can get going as a programmer (but not necessarily a game/sim developer).

The more traditional route would be a 4 year degree. I got into programming because my father bought me a Voyetra MIDI card for the family PC. The software was really crude and didn't do what I wanted it to do. In those days peripheral cards actually came with the programming specifications - so I called my dad at work and told him I needed something called an assembler so I could write interrupt service routines By the time I entered college I could already code pretty good.

I never actually completed a 4 year degree. In the end I think I accumulated nearly 5 years worth of credits between several schools. As it turns out several years worth of jazz ensemble, music theory, classical guitar, piano, principles of multitrack recording, etc. doesn't get you a 4 year degree in computer science

At some point I got serious enough to get a 2-year associates degree from the community college and just went to work as a developer in the defense industry. That was the best thing I could have done really. I got to travel all over including deploying with Marines on a number of occasions (in retrospect Desert Storm wasn't the best place for a long haired software developer).

That was the round about way of saying I think you should pursue this path

[audiophile]

I'll chime in on a few items.

The local community college here started a 2yr program for game sim/development, probably because many companies are appearing to congregate in this area.
The first graduating class was this summer, and there weren't alot, but they have noted the program is slammed full with students now. I can't imagine the <1 year worth of relevant classes get you much aside from a basic intro perspective, whereas programming in general gets you a much wider plate.

Friend at work is just starting classes, and getting the crap stuff out of the way, allowing time to adjust and decide on whether he desires game sim, or programming, but even possibly database management.

My roomate graduated from this same CC about 2 years ago in programming and is now knee deep in work. Makes dam good newbie money for only a 2-yr degree. 55k range with some OT as release dates hit I think.

I'm 2 classes short of graduating myself from the same CC, but I went the way of network admin, the Cisco flavored side of the curriculum. (Other options was MS and RedHat) All my classmates haven't even certified or graduated yet, but found work so easy, pushing 48k to start.
I'm quite similar to you needing something else and just stepping up better late than never. I've had my share of manufacturing, it is such a dead end, slave to the grind. More work, less manpower, shrinking benefits, physical labor and everyone you work with is generally displeased resulting in a long sad day trapped there with them. It's a decent job for uneducated people but sometimes we need to cross the line.

Can't share thoughts of Pell grants, but I received full scholarship, as did my roomate, just by going to the school. Did the FASFA thing, then rest was done at and by school. I totally expected not to get any due to my current wage, but damned if they didn't hand it over.

[Flatpicker]

Having gone the programming route for a few years, I'll tell you it's not worth it. Lots of late nights, crunch time stress etc. It'll suck the fun you feel with gaming right out of you.
If you are looking to get into gaming, I'd start with QA testing. It's repetitive and can be monotonous, but you can get a feel for the industry. After that, go to your local Community college and get the basics, then spend a lot of free time in the labs programming your ass off.

[nateb]

Newc, have you done any research into the life of a game programmer? When I graduated 9 years ago with a BS in Computer Science, it was kind of a dream of mine too. What I found out is game development companies tend to exploit their employees and its not glamourous at all. 60-80 hours for an average workweek, and that goes up once the game is approaching a deadline. That, and the work you end up doing seemed to be more tedious than fun.

I would look into hippietim's suggestion and see if any local community colleges offer beginning programming classes, intro to Java or C++ type classes and data structures. Get your feet wet a little and see if you like it.

That is not just gaming companies. This is typical across the software development industry. Going through it right now. 60-70 hours a week and paid for 40.

-Nate

[atomic charvel guy]

I hope you achieve what you wish for Newclear.
What happens if you make No-K a year, can you qualify?-lol Just asking.