World War 3, 08/08/08 Is it starting today?

[Jayster]

I like strawberry frosted pop tarts.

+1000

[Snoogans]

Btw, am I the only one who finds 2 MiG-31s (going off the photos I saw earlier) getting shot down kind of funny, as the 31 is supposed to be one of the fastest interceptors the world with fairly advanced electronic systems, and yet Georgia, fielding outdated tech, managed to shoot two of them down. Wtf is with that? Russia sending their reserves out there?

The few photos I've seen of Russian jets in Georgia are of SU-25s and one SU-24, which figures, as they're ground attackers.
I'm assuming the picture of the MiG-31s is just a library shot of "Generic Russian jets" - Unless they were flying high cover for the bombers and got very unlucky. Pretty unlikely because, as you said, the '31s are interceptors.

[lerxstcat]

I doubt we'll get involved in Georgia other than to protest Russian incursions. They didn't get into NATO so we wouldn't have any allies going in with us. I think the Russians are in South Ossetia and not Georgia proper anyway, aren't they? South Ossetia was part of Georgia but it's 90% ethnic Russians, so there's some reason for the separatist movement there.

Russia under Putin is definitely reasserting itself though, and shouldn't be underestimated.

[Soap]

Russia under Putin is definitely reasserting itself though, and shouldn't be underestimated.

+1
If there's anything at this point in this thread that's "note" worthy that would be it. Putin is definitely one that needs to be kept under a very watchful eye, bottom line. Russia has been waiting for a leader of his caliber to resurrect itself with, and he's (Putin) the one that can do it.

[dg]

I agree that this has everything to do with the pipeline. Russia is hellbent on controlling oil & natural gas going to Western Europe. Georgia is the path around Russia. European countries already act out of fear that Russia will cut them off. This has the potential to get very, very ugly.

And, like was said above, it sickens me that all I could find on the 24-hour cable news networks last night was bullshit about John Edwards fucking some stupid whore a couple years ago, or the latest missing child story that, while very sad, should only be getting coverage in its local news market.

[toejam]

My balls itch. Somebody scratch my balls, man!

[AK47]

They are fighting in Georgia and not just the ethnic areas.

Also the pipeline that runs through was blown up in Turkey which really pissed off the Turks and they may be jumping into this conflict.

[Soap]

I agree that this has everything to do with the pipeline. Russia is hellbent on controlling oil & natural gas going to Western Europe. Georgia is the path around Russia. European countries already act out of fear that Russia will cut them off. This has the potential to get very, very ugly.

It'll take a year or longer before it turns into anything.

[Norton]

They are fighting in Georgia and not just the ethnic areas.

Also the pipeline that runs through was blown up in Turkey which really pissed off the Turks and they may be jumping into this conflict.

I haven't been watching TV for the last few days (I'm on a "I'll finish 5 games this week!!" roll). I knew that there was fire on the pipeline but didn't know it had something to do with this.


In addition to that,as far as I know, the protection of the coasts of Georgia is provided by the Turkish Military. So, we have some military relations with them. I don't think that we'll get involved in this, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on the matter , now.

[AK47]

Georgia: Russia razed key port of Poti
Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:39:21 GMT


Russian military jets have bombarded and destroyed the Black Sea port of Poti, the Georgian Foreign Ministry has claimed in a statement.

"Russia completely devastated the port of Poti on the Black Sea, which is a key port for the transport of energy sources from the Caspian Sea and is close to the Baku-Supsa pipeline and the Supsa oil terminal," the Saturday statement said.

Reuters also reported on Saturday that two Russian military jets bombed a Georgian artillery position about 10 kilometers north of the Georgian town of Gori, which locates the main Georgian military base.

The reports come while Russian and Georgian forces continue clashes in the breakaway region of South Ossetia, which declared its independence from Georgia following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Saturday the country's peacekeepers had begun a military operation against Georgian forces in South Ossetia, Russian news agencies ITAR-TASS and RIA Novosti reported.

Meanwhile, the head of Georgia's National Security Council Alexander Lomaya said the country's forces gained 'full control' of South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali after 'fierce fighting' with Russian forces.

He further said that the Georgian government had no plans to evacuate governmental buildings or declare martial law in capital Tbilisi.

AKM/DT

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=66068§ionid=351020606

[AK47]

Analysis: energy pipeline that supplies West threatened by war Georgia conflict

August 8, 2008
Robin Pagnamenta, Times Online

The conflict that has erupted in the Caucasus has set alarm bells ringing because of Georgia's pivotal role in the global energy market.

Georgia has no significant oil or gas reserves of its own but it is a key transit point for oil from the Caspian and central Asia destined for Europe and the US.

Crucially, it is the only practical route from this increasingly important producer region that avoids both Russia and Iran.

The 1,770km (1,100 miles) Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which entered service only last year, pumps up to 1 million barrels of oil per day from Baku in Azerbaijan to Yumurtalik, Turkey, where it is loaded on to supertankers for delivery to Europe and the US. Around 249km of the route passes through Georgia, with parts running only 55km from South Ossetia.

The security of the BTC pipeline, depicted in the James Bond film The World is Not Enough, has been a primary concern since before its construction.

The first major attack on the pipeline took place only last week - not in Georgia but in Turkey where part of it was destroyed by PKK separatist rebels.

Output from the pipeline, which is 30 per cent owned by BP and carries more than 1 per cent of the world's supply, is likely to be on hold for several weeks while the fire is extinguished and the damage repaired.

But the threat of another attack by separatists in Georgia itself is very real.

Only a few days before the Turkish explosion, Georgian separatists threatened to sabotage the pipeline if hostilities continued.

The latest eruption of violence could easily spur fresh attacks. The BTC pipeline, which is buried throughout most of its length to make sabotage more difficult, was a politically highly charged project. It was firmly opposed by Russia, which views the Caucasus as its own sphere of influence and wants central Asian oil to be exported via its own territory.

Russia also backs the South Ossetian and Abkhazian separatists in Georgia and relations between Moscow and Tbilisi have curdled into outright hostility in recent months.

The BTC pipeline, which cost $3 billion to build, is a key plank of US foreign policy because it reduces Western reliance on oil from both the Middle East and Russia.

[SouthernXer]

Whoa what I was hearing on NPR sounded a lot more tame than what I'm reading here.

What do you expect with NPR?

[Endrik]

Putin is definitely one that needs to be kept under a very watchful eye, bottom line.

the whole Europe is outraged at Russia's actions... dictatorship-like leadership, un-democratic elections, crimes against human rights, all the hassle with oil and gas etc. etc. it's all featured in tv, newspapers, magazines etc. all the time but there's very little that someone can actually do something about it... going against the biggest country on earth

[Soap]

the whole Europe is outraged at Russia's actions... dictatorship-like leadership, un-democratic elections, crimes against human rights, all the hassle with oil and gas etc. etc. it's all featured in tv, newspapers, magazines etc. all the time but there's very little that someone can actually do something about it... going against the biggest country on earth

Bullies are like that.

As long as no one cares enough to stand up against the bully, he will continue to bully.
Indeed the world will continued to be outraged by his choices and behavior. At some point, the world will have to deal with Putin.
Consequences taking on such a powerful leader and nation?
At that time, when that time comes the risks, costs and sacrifices will out weigh any other concerns. He's a dictator its in his blood its who he is, he will make the conflict confrontation happen.

Untill someone stands up against him he will continue to outrage the remaining world. Bullies do for a season because they can. Putin like all dictators will be his own demise. All things have a beginning and an end.

He will bully the wrong nation or nations and it will contribute to his end. The embarrassment and humiliation of defeat does more inward damage to dictators than most realize. Usually, a foolish attempt to vindicate themselves leads to their demise, or they commit suicide. They have a quest for control and there are some things that are to be left out of man's reach of control. As the old expression goes, leave well enough alone. Dictators don't acknowledge nor care to understand this.

To me, Putin strikes me as a potential modren day Hitler, very dangerous and at some point he will have to be taken out.

[phill_up]

Bullies are like that.

As long as know one cares enough to stand up against the bully, he will continue to bully.

To me, Putin strikes me as a potential modren day Hitler, very dangerous and at some point he will have to be taken out.

For the record I hope it will be another country or countries that deal with that, all these pain in the ass dick'tators is about to make the USA file bankruptcy!