World War 3, 08/08/08 Is it starting today?

[lerxstcat]

use a nuke, however small it is, regardless of where and what for, and it would set off insanity, there would be no negotiations, you either launch a premptive first strike and throw in your all your chips fast, or you risk the same, which would happen anyway, which is why Mutually Assured Destruction works so well, it either will happen on a grand scale or not at all, but there is no pissing on the floor and mopping it up, just my opinion, but reading alot about the subject over a long period of time and this is MY conclusion.


C

It's already part of the Bush Doctrine to use preemptive strike instead of MAD if necessary. He's told Russia to cut the crap and Putin's spokesman laughed at him. It's not beyond belief that he would use tactical nukes.

It's also not beyond belief that he thinks he can back the Russians down from an ICBM exchange. They scrapped a great number of their ICBMS after the START treaty and we actually bought a lot of the plutonium from them when they were broke. They have also not had the money to spend on maintenance since 1991 at least.

All that might make Putin doubt his ability to inflict a massive nuclear attack on us. But WE have maintained OUR systems and could annihilate Russia without a doubt.

So it's possible that Bush feels he can use tactical nukes and then make Putin back down from all-out nuclear war. Whether that is actually true or not, who knows?

But we can't stop them by conventional means since our military has shrunk in terms of manpower. And if they see that and don't think we'll go nuclear, why shouldn't they just reoccupy the former Warsaw Pact states, and then Western Europe as well? Are European militaries capable of stopping that?

If you're worrying about any nuke, anywhere, setting off the end of the world, then you should really be horrified that Pakistan and India both have nuclear weapons. Chances are high that those nations will fight a nuclear war at some point. Not much anyone can do about that.

[GodOfRhythm]

It's already part of the Bush Doctrine to use preemptive strike instead of MAD if necessary. He's told Russia to cut the crap and Putin's spokesman laughed at him. It's not beyond belief that he would use tactical nukes.

It's also not beyond belief that he thinks he can back the Russians down from an ICBM exchange. They scrapped a great number of their ICBMS after the START treaty and we actually bought a lot of the plutonium from them when they were broke. They have also not had the money to spend on maintenance since 1991 at least.

All that might make Putin doubt his ability to inflict a massive nuclear attack on us. But WE have maintained OUR systems and could annihilate Russia without a doubt.

So it's possible that Bush feels he can use tactical nukes and then make Putin back down from all-out nuclear war. Whether that is actually true or not, who knows?

But we can't stop them by conventional means since our military has shrunk in terms of manpower. And if they see that and don't think we'll go nuclear, why shouldn't they just reoccupy the former Warsaw Pact states, and then Western Europe as well? Are European militaries capable of stopping that?

If you're worrying about any nuke, anywhere, setting off the end of the world, then you should really be horrified that Pakistan and India both have nuclear weapons. Chances are high that those nations will fight a nuclear war at some point. Not much anyone can do about that.

First of all, Bush wouldn't use Nukes, not even he and his joint chiefs are that dumb.

Secondly, Russia can be massively harmed with sanctions. Sure us Euros will lack oil/gas but we'll be capable of managing.

Thirdly, Russia invading Western Europe...They would have HELL to go through just to occupy and maintain a presence in former Warsaw Pact states (you think Iraq is guerilla warfare, you ain't seen nothing yet!). And even IF he starts attacking Western Europe. The combined forces of Germany, France, Norway, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and the UK and whatnot are definitely capable of at least holding them off. Don't forget, we have 'nukes' too.

Also, at that point India and Japan would join in, because what you would have then is DEFINITELY World War III (and like I say it's not going to happen), but hypothetically speaking, if it WERE to happen: the US, Australia and whatnot would come to our aid. Along with most of the UK's commonbest.

[Endrik]

no one doesn't want to use the nukes... no one... not Pakistan, not India, not Iran, not Korea, not Russia etc.

they have the nukes to scare the others but they wouldn't dare to use them.. why? because they like to exist, when they use the nukes they will get assaulted back and there wont be much people left...

but when some smart ass thinks it's a good idea to use the nukes... then the ones who get hit will be like "ok, when I'm going down everyone goes down" which will lead to chain reaction and everyone would blast the crap out of each other until there's no one alive.

[Cleveland Metal]

I'm not one to get onto these sorts of pissing matches. But, (as most always) I pretty much agree with Lerx on the matter. Many times in the past, limited "nucular" (hehe) strikes have been mentioned and we've been prepped on the possibility.

I really would not put that out of the question.

[SpiralArchitect]

I personally think if it did come down to it, there would be air burst tactical nukes used, or even depleted uranium bombs like the "bunker buster" but any thing else is Suicide. As Endrik stated and as you all have stated and seem to think Russia is a hull of it's former self I think that even if a limited Tac Nuke was used they would see that as the beginning and send over whatever they have as some people said it's like backing a rabid dog into a corner, and I don't really believe they havn't been maintaining thier arsenal, I think they have some incredible stuff we don't know about, however the same could be said about the west. I just think western media likes to report on things and spin them to make the west feel superior. They do the same of course to thier own people and the west, I just think they have alot of money to throw at wespons and R&D and have done so in the past 5 years.

We are truly isolated from them, and they do things we can't even imagine.

but I REALLY doubt anyone would be stupid enough to bother with even a Tac nuke event.


C

[SpiralArchitect]

Here is an interesting article about russias TNW arsenal that was reported on by a third party organization called FOI (www.foi.com)Swedish Defence Research Agency

http://www.foi.se/upload/pdf/FOI-RussiasTacticalNuclearWeapons.pdf

that is the second half, it's 80 pages but an interesting read none the less

C

[Cleveland Metal]

Hmmm... Seems the Russions are going the wrong direction if they're leavin'.

Ummm... the plot thickens...

[horns666]

I watched a Shepard Smith(sp) on Fox nex interview a 12 year old girl from CA that was visiting family in Ossetia on 08-08-08. She stated that she was in a cafe with her grandfather when the bombs started dropping. She stayed in her family's basement before being able to fly back to CA. She said Georgian troops were the ones looting and killing and NOT the russians. She was cut off immediately...and went to a commercial. When they returned the girl sitting with her grandmother and stated again it wasn't the russians bombing her home...Shepard Smith cut her off again. The grandmother stated.."I know, you don't want to hear this'...before they were off the air.

To be honest, I think we are putting our spin on this for our own interest. McCain held a conference just seconds after that.

I lost faith in our media (fuck them), govenment, politicians and our role in world peace..its ALL bullshit!

ITS ALL BULLSHIT..!!!!

[horns666]

I found it!!

Shepard Smith interview..12 year old from Ossestia & CA THANKS Russian troops to keep the hometown goofy, monkeys in line.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

There is further reports that Georgian troops (inept Borats with guns) were looting and killings their own like madmen. Now THAT I believe!

I know this much..McCain has a major chubby and a gleam in his eye right now. Fear of Russia is EXACTLY what justifies putting him in. Even if he loses the popular vote come November. Don't get me wrong..Fuck Obama too...fuck his ass..fuck 'em both..fuck Georgia, The Middle east, Russia, China and ALL the weasils in power that is really running this show ..FUGGUMS

Stay home November 8th..smoke a bowl and eat a pizza...because it doesn't matter...it doesn't fuggin' matter! If you think it does, like I always did..you're just foolin' yourself.

Thank you..and you're welcome!

Bill Z

[Hellbat]

I tell you what Bill, I'll stay home and smoke a bowl tonight just to provide you moral support.

[CharvelRocker]

Bill, I won't disagree Fox handled it wrong. But let's check some facts. South Ossetians HATE people from Georgia as they feel they are ethnically entitled to the region. Because of this, they will do anything to discredit the Georgians. And two, soldiers don't run around with big signs saying what country they are from. Looking at pictures, you can't tell a Georgia soldier from a Russian soldier. Both sides are biased against each other and will do anything to discredit the other. Because of that, you can't really take any of the interviews with the native people without considering their heavy bias.

EDIT: Can't argue with staying home on the 8th though!

[Bengal]

How do we know they are not Russian soldiers in Georgian uniforms?

It's been done before, several times. Oldest trick in the book.

Not saying that's what is going on now, I have no idea. But if it came out that way, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Drives up "support" for Russian occupation if they can prove that the local Army is hurting the villagers.

[horns666]

Hellbat..there ya go.

CR..I hear ya man. But I can't even pretend to know their biz. Hell, we don't even know our own biz. Who knows what really goes on behind close doors. These days I truly believe that presidents are nothing but figureheads. Sure, they have their agendas..don't we all. But does anyone really think any of them call the shots..not me. I vision a handful of cigar puffin' fat cats pullin' all the strings ..telling guys like Bush, Blaire and Putin what to do...or their advisors anywhoo.

Just like the middle east..just another ensuing conflict. Now the shit hits the fan..80+ days before election day. I smell bullshit! McCain is sure runnin' with it..you can see it. He has that twinkle in his eye. Like him or not, he wouldn't have a chance if this wasn't an issue. I actually like the guy..but I don't trust him. But I don't trust anyone because they are phony, crooked assholes who tell us what we want to hear. They are likable and charismatic..but so was Hitler, Cesar, Nero, Usama, Saddam, Putin, Bush, ..McCain, Obama and ect ect ect...depending who's side you're on.

Actually, I'm more intrested what guys like Endrik has to say. Our members on that side of the globe have more of a clue than we do.

This is the first time I am not going to vote since I was 18 years old..because its all bullshit. I know who I LIKE a little more. So, I'll eat a pizza and maybe bet my dad who wins...that'll pay for my pizza anywhoo...maybe.

[Endrik]

as far as I know there are about 20% pure Ossetians in Ossetia. Then there's many Russians and Georgians and the mix of all three.

Half of the people of Ossetia are pro Russian half are pro Georgia.

Although Ossetia is a part of Georiga... Georgia lets them have their own government, schools etc.

Ossetians and Georgians didn't have a problem with each other... they have existed together for a very long time.

But thanks to Russian's initiative (wether the local Russian minded soldiers, Russian's own soldiers or Russian mercenaries) who started attacking Georgian patrols etc. stirred up the whole shit. Georgian government sent their troops after them and that's when all the shit happened.

Is there some Georgians attacking Ossetian towns.... it can be possible... durning the state of war you are attacking the regions where the possible enemies are located. That being said Georgia is staying defensive... mostly near Tbilisi... to protect their most important parts of the country. There aren't a lot of Georgians in Ossetia.
If there's cities being totally bombed... you have too look at Russian Air Force who also bombed infrastructures and civil objects in Georgia... including the oil pipelines, communication centers etc.
If Georgian soldiers are looting in Ossetia, then where are the Russian "peacekeepers" who are so keen on keeping the red cross out of the areas where people are heavily injured?

[Endrik]

I'll wait for the EU investigation committee reports