True metal vs trends

[Endrik]

That video typifies everything that is wrong with most popular music today. Don't bother coming up with anything new, it's much cheaper & easier to take someone else's and sample it for your own tune. But now, instead of sampling say, a chorus, they've distilled it down to just two words. Get the essence of the hook. Lay it over a hokey house beat, fill a video with hot chicks with hardly any clothes on and you've got yourself a hit that embeds itself into the minds of 14 year olds the world over. Big cash in the ringtone sales too - subscribe to our service for $4.95 a week and we'll send you THREE new ringtones every week (please ask permission of parents before subscribing)

who cares, the chick is hot!!! :ROTF:

I forget though - what are the most important things to musically come out of Estonia? Apart from yourself, of course. Winner of Eurovision 2001?

carry on with the main subject... nothing to talk about here

everything is utter shit

but if you like modern classical music then there are some dudes worth mentioning... the most important figure is Arvo Part who is one of the most respected minimalists in the world. Then there's Veljo Tormis, Lepo Sumera maybe even Erkki-Sven Tüür
Then there's one great jazz sax player Villu Veski... and a young piano wiz Kristjan Randalu.

That's it

[VitaminG]

yea, Snoogs, they are. Can't remember much about them but remember they were pretty good way back when.

just found this page on the Aus Metal Guide. http://www.ausmetalguide.com/Mantissa

[Snoogans]

Hey G - aren't Mantissa Aussie? I just re-discovered an album of theirs that I've had for a few years - Mossy God. It's really good, in that 90's funk-metal stylee.

[VitaminG]

wow, thanks for that, E. You're going to so easily dismiss the efforts of Air Supply, Savage Garden, The Little River Band, The Easybeats, The Bee Gees?

That video typifies everything that is wrong with most popular music today. Don't bother coming up with anything new, it's much cheaper & easier to take someone else's and sample it for your own tune. But now, instead of sampling say, a chorus, they've distilled it down to just two words. Get the essence of the hook. Lay it over a hokey house beat, fill a video with hot chicks with hardly any clothes on and you've got yourself a hit that embeds itself into the minds of 14 year olds the world over. Big cash in the ringtone sales too - subscribe to our service for $4.95 a week and we'll send you THREE new ringtones every week (please ask permission of parents before subscribing)

I forget though - what are the most important things to musically come out of Estonia? Apart from yourself, of course. Winner of Eurovision 2001?

[Endrik]

when it comes to music, the two most important things ever to come out of Australia are AC/DC and Deanne Berry's appearance in this music video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIohJZ-rhyk

[bibz]

G said it for me up there, its weird for aussies, because we're so friggin' young, we're still very much patriotic by standard. So as much as we love the other cultures (which are all abundantly clear in this multicultural island) anything absolutely australian is still novelty and awesome! This place'll be the best of all worlds I tell ya....if the worst from all worlds don't fuck it up first

Oh, and Alchemist frigging rule! I don't have any on my pc, must go find the albums and rip them. Spiritech/Organasm/War of The Worlds rule. Chinese Whispers especially!!

Obviously not what this thread is about but I'm gonna mention Psycroptic again anyway cause I can't help it.

[Endrik]

that being said not all modern European music is bad. I think the Brits were amazing in 60's and 70's... Beatles, Stones, Small Faces, Yardbirds, Cream, Who, Zep, Humble Pie, Floyd, Genesis etc. etc. etc.

and the music in South Europe is pretty cool too, specially the traditional music.

What I can't stand is most of the central and northern European crap.

but I'm very interested in all kinds of stuff from Oceania area.

[Endrik]

yep Bill... you are totally right... music from the other side of the world is escape.
when I grew up surrounded by European music it sickened me... everything sounded robotic... you put on a pop song... the same beat... you put on a rock song... the same beat... you put on a dance song... same beat... metal song... same fucking beat...
and the blues element which is very important IMO in 20th century music, is very minimal or non existent.... hey blues is where it all came from

USA has plenty of things to talk about... hey my ancestors were vikings and pirates... but in music I don't want to hear about it... it's cheesy as hell...
As a someone who has studied anthropolgy, world history and culture a lot... I can say that american, specially afro-american culture is one of the most interesting things.
Just listen to some old blues recordings... very deep lyrics.... it all became how their environment affected them.



It's very interesting. America mixed all the different types of music from all the places in the world.
When black slaves worked in the fields and sang their songs which eventually led to the birth of blues... even at the start it had pentatonic melodies which came from West African music (the place where the slaves where from). But over the years the feel of that music changed thanks to the new environment. And it became blues... it was sadder than the West African music. And when the blacks were baptized... those songs were what became spirituals.... and when they started to make their own churches the spirituals became gospel.

At the same time in Louisana, mostly in New Orleans area... the black dudes had their own thing... but there were bunch of dudes from France... cajuns... and some of them mixed with the blacks... creoles... and combining the afro-american ideas with more complicated French/European music... it became Ragtime which evolved to Jazz... eventually it was a music played in whore houses but when it went to the streets and clubs... all the other elements came into the play... chinese railroad workers brought their music (pentatonic melodies) as well as Irish with their pentatonic ideas. And then of course the Spanish had brought their complex rhythms to South America. And Latinos brought those ideas to the north. And that with combined with the complex african rhythms etc. jazz became very complex... free... experimental... improvisational music which fused so many different elements.

But in more white populated areas... the Irish elements combined with other things from all over the world.. it gave birth to bluegrass... which later took elements from jazz and blues and became country.

But then America started to urbanise... the black dudes were looking for better jobs in the cities... a lot of shit was happening in the south (When The Levee Breaks)... and black dudes with their blues and jazz and gospel... city environment and electricity made them to create soul, funk, electric blues and of course rock'n'roll which also fused some elements from country music.

And when those types of music to started to spread around the world.. the British took it to the next level... they combined all those african american and some country music elements with distortion... creating psychedelic music, rock, hard rock, heavy metal, prog rock, glam rock etc.

And then the Americans took all that and pushed it even further and creating ridiculous amounts of different music etc. which was a part of the biggest cultural revolution in 20th century thanks to the hippie movement for the most part.

That's a very colorful piece of cultural history. I don't see what's there not to talk about.

That being said... "message" is over rated in my opinion... music is the most important... vocal melodies are more important than lyrics.
But having such a colorful backround and a very good infrastructure because of it... the possibilities are endless.

[VitaminG]

well, here I am, sitting in the middle. I'm not living in Europe or the US, so the above arguments are moot to me. And yet I enjoy a lot of metal out of both places. And try as much as I can to share good Aussie metal with you guys too.

Just in from seeing Meshuggah. Hearing is fucked, coated in an inch of salt & sweat, have to be up for work in about 3 hours

A nice surprise for me tonight - I had no idea who was opening and was very pleased to find Alchemist on stage shortly after I got there. This is one band that has their own thing going on. On stage, they trigger a lot of samples (didgeridoos, atmospherics) in amongst the heavy riffage & death-ish vox. There's really nothing out there quite like them. http://www.bnrmetal.com/v2/bandpage.php?ID=Alch

not really the sort of stuff we've been sharing in this thread so far, but just in case anyone is interested...

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=jrbJkTqXw_k

[Ben...]

I can see what you are talking about on the image thing, Mr. E. I realize that there is an apparent image associated with metal I just don't like it when people go overboard with it like that Avenged Sevenfold band and all the "core" bands. A black t-shirt and a pair of jeans is metal enough to me.

I completely agree with you, Bill. The music here is just too dull. We have no real history to write about(Scandinavian bands and vikings, things like that). All we seem to get is these cookie-cutter bands that sound the same because record companies aren't willing to take a risk anymore. Sure, the production values are great but the music is boring. Heck, I'll take good music over production any day(This is all of course subjective). The only North American bands I listen to are Nevermore and Kamelot(I mainly listen to the Khan era, I can't get into the old singer). I just find that there's something in European music that I think is missing from North American music.

As always, it's all about location.

[horns666]

Sure, looks, themes and all that is important in metal..it's a lifestyle and an escape. I can see Endrik's point because he lives there. I know Ben's point because I live here. This is a great country but things are just sterile here IMO. We're not that old so all you see here is fast food chains and shopping mall after shopping mall. I love castles so much, I built one out of my home, my metal sanctuary! I always hated mainstream music in the states all my life. So even the gayest dragon humping song on the radio will grab your attention immediately because it is so non exist. So, we pay $20 -$50 a pop for imported "cheeseball" music just to escape the mundayne...its all about escape. People in Asia and Europe love american music to escape and american metal fans love metal from anywhere to escape. It doesn't really matter where it comes from as long as they connect to it. I love great production, but my first priority was always musical value...my perception of it anywhoo.

[Endrik]

Whats up with the the euro metal bands?The make up thing trying to look like their dead grandmother? Not very scary to me just looks cheezy.
Now some of the ero power metal is really good stuff just not very well produced and thats not the bands fault thats the managers job.

actually the main reason is that europe lacks good producers (except for UK), most of the stuff sounds really cheesy, clinical and lifeless, americans have a lot better idea how to make a good sounding record. Another reason why I perfer US music to European.

[straycat]

Whats up with the the euro metal bands?The make up thing trying to look like their dead grandmother? Not very scary to me just looks cheezy.
Now some of the ero power metal is really good stuff just not very well produced and thats not the bands fault thats the managers job.

[Endrik]

now Image/clothing is very important because everyone makes a big deal out of it.
If I'd go to an extreme metal concert wearing baggie pants and a fubu hoodie I'd get judged by what clothes I wear. More than 90% of the people there would automatically assume who I am and what I like. Prejudice at best.

If clothing isn't important, then why in metal concerts the majority dresses the same way. There's not much individuality, everyone looks the same. They wear those specific clothes to get approval from each other. They all can deny it... but psychologically they like to follow the rest of the cattle. It's human nature and that is that.

There are metal bands or just metal fans with outrageous clothes/make-up etc.
If they put so much effort into that look that means they do care about it.

Another interesting thing I've observed is that a lot of tr00 metalheads talk so much about how looks are not important in music yet they point out how ridiculous the hair bands look like. When you see a hair band doing an interview they don't mention a word about their look... they don't go "hey check out my new haircut" etc. (well except for maybe Poison).... but those who say that looks are not important make such a big deal of out how the others look.

Looks matters a lot and specially in metal

[Endrik]

european bands look and sound like they just came out of forest

most of them only know how to play one friggin beat... and I'm not talking only about metal

american bands/musicians are much more professional, they play with more attitude, have better image, are a lot more knowledgeable and realistic... you know they have the complete package... I'm talking about real bands of course who are in big urban areas (LA, NYC etc.)... amateurs in Idaho or somewhere like that are as silly as euro bands.