True metal vs trends

[horns666]

Is black metal true metal? Its been around for almost a couple decades now and has been connected to pagans, satanists, and the burning of churches which IMO is about as metal as it gets.

the answer is..yes.

[toejam]

Ozzy and Lemmy are *not* metal? Now educate me.

They're hard rock. Motorhead will even tell you they're not metal, they're just a rock 'n' roll band. Close enough to metal, I guess, but technically not.

[horns666]

Ozzy and Lemmy are *not* metal? Now educate me.

Trying to define a popular music genre (yes, metal is popular music) in rational, muso terms can be a tricky thing, because many genre divisons often have their origin in extra-musical sociological phenomena like marketing strategies (top-down) or the fan bases trying to set themselves apart from each other (bottom-up). Or can anyone state the significant musical difference (choice of tempi, harmonic progressions, counterpoint, melody, instrumentation) between Iron Maiden and Manowar? I have learned that one is metal, the other a joke.

In musical terms, Motorhead is just Chuck Berry speed up and played at higher volume. Which is not a bad thing at all, but I experience the difference between them as something more profound than the chosen tone of their amp.

The most reliable criteria I have seen so far is sociological: Metal is pure white working class, Rock is middle class. Hence, Ozzy and Motorhead are metal.

Joe is correct. Ozzy and Lemmy, AC/DC, Led Zep and ect are not metal..they are what metal evloved from. They are purveyors of metal..Ozzy and Van Halen wrote metal songs..such as Bark at the Moon, Mr Crowley, Atomic Punk, Light Up the sky ect...but morphed into Momma I'm commin' home and When its love..top 40. So Many bands did that...it doesn't mean they suck..but "metal" took a back seat for fame. Motorehead, AC/DC..those fuckers are exactly now what they were then..and we love 'em for it! Metalheads embrace them!..so don't get all sisphosterous on us.

[toejam]

And Led Zep, while they had their heavier moments, had a lot of bluegrass and folk roots in their music. They still kicked ass at what they did, but were not metal.

I'd say metal got its start from Black Sabbath, who originally were a bluesy hard rock band called Earth, then they took it to another level. Judas Priest became metal, but their first couple of albums were more bluesy hard rock too (and they dressed in flowery blouses, bellbottoms, and looked like hippies).

[horns666]

Joe is correct again..his moobs are wise!

[toejam]

Rub them for good luck.

[CharvelRocker]

And Led Zep, while they had their heavier moments, had a lot of bluegrass and folk roots in their music. They still kicked ass at what they did, but were not metal.

I'd say metal got its start from Black Sabbath, who originally were a bluesy hard rock band called Earth, then they took it to another level. Judas Priest became metal, but their first couple of albums were more bluesy hard rock too (and they dressed in flowery blouses, bellbottoms, and looked like hippies).

Let's not forget the bomb that was Turbo, where the guitars sounded broken half the time... I do think Rob Zombie has been around long enough by himself and White Zombie to separate him from the nu-metal crowd, not to mention he tries stuff other than "chugga chugga over growls" without going Top 40, but I guess you could still see him as a trend rider. For sure though, you have to put in bands like Jag Panzer, Iron Maiden, and Symphony X as some great bands that have stuck to their guns.

I'm surprised though no one here has mentioned Alice Cooper as a big influence in metal... a guy who drew from blues rock and really toughened up the sound over the years and inspired a lot of people back in his prime, Dave Mustaine being one that comes to mind.

[horns666]

We have not touched upon my pud..I mean the topic of True Metal VS Trend. I will give an example how we'll do this..

lets start with somthing easy..

TREND..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKAIlrkSZOg

METAL..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89giDpJfbVM

[CharvelRocker]

We have not touched upon my pud..I mean the topic of True Metal VS Trend. I will give an example how we'll do this..

lets start with somthing easy..

TREND..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKAIlrkSZOg

METAL..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89giDpJfbVM

That band Evergrey is AWESOME based on that song. I will need to DL some of their stuff for sure The video is cheesy, but the music owns. I agree Limp Biscuit were trend riders. I dunno if you could consider Rammstein here a trend or metal, but their sound hasn't changed and it is unique imo. Given timing, I'll go trend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9DdyBHxGXQ

Now this is killer metal band here that never let up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5rd9...eature=related

Considering that had stopped being hip at the time, I thought it was awesome. Maybe one of the best metal bands of the 90s that never gave into the crap

[Ben...]

Judas Priest became metal, but their first couple of albums were more bluesy hard rock too (and they dressed in flowery blouses, bellbottoms, and looked like hippies).

I agree with this statement. I must say it's weird to listen to old stuff like Stained Class then listen to Painkiller then think that it's the same band.

[CharvelRocker]

I agree with this statement. I must say it's weird to listen to old stuff like Stained Class then listen to Painkiller then think that it's the same band.

On the subject of JP, I always thought they were great a band to put about 50 or so of their songs in chronological order and listen to them. there is a great progression to their music. Turbo was a real wild card. Had 4 good songs, but the rest were crap. Granted, it was an album literally taken out of context. Ram It Down is kind of like Painkiller the prelude, building on some of the Defenders stuff. Painkiller really tried to take that sound and run with it, but aside from the title track, was a bit weak. With Ripper onboard, they just tried to hard. Angel of Retribution kind of blended their various albums together, and was a solid cd with hints of the prog that would be Nostradamus. I think they tried to inject that Iced Earth sound into their own stuff in Nostradamus, but it wound up being a bit of a bastard cd.

[horns666]

TREND..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_MJX58qk8

METAL..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUYCs...eature=related

[horns666]

Halford hand picked Primal Fear to open for them on the Monsters of rock ..whatever it was called.

Ralph Scheepers was second runner up for JP. But JP wanted an American singer. Halford was pissed at Tim for comments he made about him in the press...which I can't blame him. Rob stated "If it wasn;t for me there would be NO Ripper" I asked Tim "WTF did you do to Rob"..and he literally ran way..it was hilarious..you had to be there.

Halford liked what he heard in Primal Fear's last effort and injected their European JP spin into their own style with the epic Nostradamus.

It's a pretty funny circle..Rob was inspred by someone he inspired and used that formula for themselves..which is very cool.

[Ben...]

On the subject of JP, I always thought they were great a band to put about 50 or so of their songs in chronological order and listen to them. there is a great progression to their music. Turbo was a real wild card. Had 4 good songs, but the rest were crap. Granted, it was an album literally taken out of context. Ram It Down is kind of like Painkiller the prelude, building on some of the Defenders stuff. Painkiller really tried to take that sound and run with it, but aside from the title track, was a bit weak. With Ripper onboard, they just tried to hard. Angel of Retribution kind of blended their various albums together, and was a solid cd with hints of the prog that would be Nostradamus. I think they tried to inject that Iced Earth sound into their own stuff in Nostradamus, but it wound up being a bit of a bastard cd.

I completely agree. I do that from time to time actually.

[m2pmd70]

Wikipedia seems to agree with the history/definition of the term "metal" as I've always understood it.

I've never really understood the whole need to over-classify music and pigeonhole bands. The dizzying array of subgenres is ridiculous. If you like it listen to it. If not turn it off.

Metal: http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=0cF3_ZJhD-Q

Metal vs. non-metal: http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=4hy6sJEPCYM

lol