Crime=punishment? Not in L.A.

[Endrik]

I certainly would NOT move to NY or Cali. Both are very messed up as far as my political leanings and as far as the way people are there

well that's fine, a lot of people move into those places just for those reasons.. different tastes I guess

Actually, I would (and do) PARTICULARLY pick on the actions of the people as well, as it the extension of their political views and beliefs that effects others.

I verbally piss on people who act like assholes by breaking a law or something like that... but I wouldn't judge them by their lifestyle (based on their beliefs etc.) which doesn't affect no one else, I'm not a social conservative, I don't want to dictate how the others live, just obey the laws but otherwise do what ever the hell you want. Maybe that's my problem, being born under the soviet dictatorship and all.

And yeah dude, you do act like you're oh so knowledgable about the place sometimes (as well as other things). That is amusing to "me" considering you were here a few months and were in a place that is seriously NOT what the general make up of America is. I seriously would not base my views on the people of where you were at.

Well a lot of you folks were such an experts on the middle east all of sudden, and all that was based on what... Fox news?
I don't have a general make up of America btw. as the states are pretty different from each other. They are like different countries.
You have lived there all your life but what's your experience with California as you hate it so much? I mean Ohio and Cali should be pretty different so does living in Cleveland would make one an expert on Cali?
From my little experiences I can say that not all Cali is liberal. Having spent most of the time in OC where spoiled, right wing, racists, incredibly fake and untrustworthy folks are pretty easy to notice..

And the "tough guy" stuff as you call it, often does work better than the hug a criminal stuff does.

I don't agree, both of them don't work at all.

[Jayster]

well that's fine, a lot of people move into those places just for those reasons.. different tastes I guess

I've been all over the US with work ,and every where you go is very different .In regards to race ,economy ,values and culture.I also am originally from NY(born and raised) ,I had to leave for employment opportunities ,and am I ever glad that I did .Without the opportunity to see how different things can be in my own country -I would'nt be as understanding of others .

just obey the laws

I think this is what started this thread is some miscreants (lawbreaking thugs) are being rewarded for breaking the law.

Well a lot of you folks were such an experts on the middle east all of sudden, and all that was based on what... Fox news?

I would say touche (sp?) but that's french fuck them ,they're in the middle east too are'nt they ?(that's a joke)I agree with you 100% many people felt seriously outraged after 9-11 ,and maybe we didn't take the time to learn thier culture.In retrospect perhaps we should have at least talked to someone who had been there before !!

I don't have a general make up of America btw. as the states are pretty different from each other. They are like different countries.

This is 100% true !!!However in our defense ,Europe has many countries in the amount of space as the us ,so does Asia and the Soviet block !!!

You have lived there all your life but what's your experience with California as you hate it so much? I mean Ohio and Cali should be pretty different so does living in Cleveland would make one an expert on Cali?

I rather enjoyed being in california while working in that the area(not la) is beautifull ,the weather was great ,and things were not right on top of each other.I spent almost a year in different parts of cali northern and southern ,Orange county is one wierd place !!!Yes Ohio and Cali are very different places !!!I'll let someone from Ohio elaborate on this.

From my little experiences I can say that not all Cali is liberal. Having spent most of the time in OC where spoiled, right wing, racists, incredibly fake and untrustworthy folks are pretty easy to notice..

I agree Endrik ,however 'if you run with dogs ,you'll get the fleas' mentality abounds.California is known for some things that make it viewed as very liberal ,but no where you go - will you find that every person reflects the same values and mores(sp?)!

Are there not rich people in communist countries ?

I don't agree, both of them don't work at all.

Incarceration at least seperates the unlawfull from the lawfull ,to some extent.Hugs are great for your own children ,not violent offenders.Is there a better way ?maybe ,but mankind has certainly not found it !!!!

Now that I've stated my viewpoints feel free to retort ,but in all fairness this thread was originaly about ;should people who commit crimes be rewarded ?At least that's how I viewed it !!!!

Merry Christmass to all
Jay

[Cleveland Metal]

Well a lot of you folks were such an experts on the middle east all of sudden, and all that was based on what... Fox news?

Yeah, that's scary, haha... Sadly, we literally have no reliable news source here. Network TV is notoriously left wing liberal and FOX is notoriously right wing conservative. Neither gives news reliable views that I can trust.

I used to go BBC, but they have gone pretty liberal as well. Or at least tend to be somewhat anti american to the point where I don't feel I'm getting the truth about our matters. They still are a (somewhat) of good source to international as long as it doesn't pertain to us. Unfortunately we have our noses in so much stuff, THAT is an area that is hard to find, haha...

That said, I tend to watch FOX or CNN and try to stay centered between the two. I am pretty good at tossing the obvious extreme BS that both spew and reading between the lies. I'm thankful for the internet tho, haha...

I don't have a general make up of America btw. as the states are pretty different from each other. They are like different countries.

You have lived there all your life but what's your experience with California as you hate it so much? I mean Ohio and Cali should be pretty different so does living in Cleveland would make one an expert on Cali?
From my little experiences I can say that not all Cali is liberal. Having spent most of the time in OC where spoiled, right wing, racists, incredibly fake and untrustworthy folks are pretty easy to notice..

No, I don't live in Cali. I do and have done a lot of business with Californian business as well a many other states. I have quite a few friends that live there (including several law enforcement officers, who definitely see the common denominators) and others that are there on business on a monthly or so basis. California legislation and lawmaking are (for some screwed up reasons I won't go into) often a model for other states, and that makes me pay a lot of attenion to their legislation.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that I have. I don't hate Cali. I'd live there if it weren't for the mindset that is predominant there and the whacky system of laws. Weather sure is awesome and the women are certainly amazing.

I have some very cool Cali friends, but they are not quite of the traditional mindset there. I'd be miserable in many ways there just from the idiots, the politics and the media.

I don't agree, both of them don't work at all.

Yeah true, like anything, extreme views usually aren't the solution. Always a fine mix of the two making the effective mixture... Like tuning a guitar, you have to even things out over the spectrum to make it work pleasingly.

Sadly, thugs DO NOT understand anything but force. They have no respect for anything else.

[marcus]

I am not sure why you guys are so incensed about this. These offenders are kids, and there is nothing I have read in the article that was posted that suggests that they are irredeemable. Why should we, with no knowledge of the case or these offenders, sit in judgment of this action based upon such a paucity of facts?

Also, California is not really a go easy, hug the offender kind of a state. It has one of the largest and most violent incarcerated populations in the country. It has one of the first, and probably the broadest, of the "three strikes" laws. This was voted on overwhelmingly by the public. I lived there for some time, and many voter referendums to build more prisons, and to more harshly punish offenders, came up and they all passed. So much for all the hippie bashing.

Study after study has shown that prison in this country just makes the incarcerated more violent and less redeemable. If someone has another idea of how to treat these criminals, than it is fine with me. This "hang-em-high" attitude that is prevalent amongst Americans has given us the largest incarcerated population in the western world, coupled with a high rate of recidivism. Anyone who sees prison as not just punishment, but also as rehabilitation, should be listened to, not shunned for espousing outdated, misguided beliefs. Most violent criminals will be on the streets again someday, we should be doing everything we can to make sure they are not worse when they come out than when they go in.

Please fell free now to call me an overly forgiving, misguided hippie. You guys are going to have to do a lot more convincing to get me to sign on to this knee-jerk lynch mob you are concocting here, so I guess its all fair

[Cleveland Metal]

Ummm... you are an overly forgiving, misguided hippie...

How'd I do?

[marcus]

Ummm... you are an overly forgiving, misguided hippie...

How'd I do?

You're not convincing me

[Cleveland Metal]

See, you guys can't be reasoned with!

I'll type much louder next time...

[Jayster]

I am not sure why you guys are so incensed about this. These offenders are kids, and there is nothing I have read in the article that was posted that suggests that they are irredeemable. Why should we, with no knowledge of the case or these offenders, sit in judgment of this action based upon such a paucity of facts?

sit in judgment ?

a court convicted these kids ,not I.Agreed the only info I have seen on this is the article here ,but the point is that they have been sentenced to a sentence of discipline ,not awarded frequent flyer miles.Am I suggesting that they're iredeemable - NO ,but as someone who tries positive reinforcment at home (with my children).I always remember positive / I.E. good behavior leads to privilages and other fun things ,bad behavior results in loss of privilages and other creative discipline (I'm not a fan of spanking).

Please fell free now to call me an overly forgiving, misguided hippie. You guys are going to have to do a lot more convincing to get me to sign on to this knee-jerk lynch mob you are concocting here, so I guess its all fair

Knee-jerk lynch mob ?
put the pipe down bro ,suggesting that someone serve they're sentence as court deemed fair is in no way a mob mentality !!!If the sentencing was unfair ,they're are appeals and what not.I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.You overly forgiving misguided hippie

Merry Christmass all
Jay

[phill_up]

Maybe the old lady those kids beat up will chip in hoping to make them feel better about themselves.

Dude! I was thinking the same thing! They wouldn't get to go if they would have never beat the old lady up. Its her fault. If she would have never got beat up we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. She should go with them to prove that we can all forgive and "cant we all...just get along?". They should get some camera time too! <insert=sarcasm>

[lerxstcat]

I am not sure why you guys are so incensed about this. These offenders are kids, and there is nothing I have read in the article that was posted that suggests that they are irredeemable. Why should we, with no knowledge of the case or these offenders, sit in judgment of this action based upon such a paucity of facts?

Also, California is not really a go easy, hug the offender kind of a state. It has one of the largest and most violent incarcerated populations in the country. It has one of the first, and probably the broadest, of the "three strikes" laws. This was voted on overwhelmingly by the public. I lived there for some time, and many voter referendums to build more prisons, and to more harshly punish offenders, came up and they all passed. So much for all the hippie bashing.

Study after study has shown that prison in this country just makes the incarcerated more violent and less redeemable. If someone has another idea of how to treat these criminals, than it is fine with me. This "hang-em-high" attitude that is prevalent amongst Americans has given us the largest incarcerated population in the western world, coupled with a high rate of recidivism. Anyone who sees prison as not just punishment, but also as rehabilitation, should be listened to, not shunned for espousing outdated, misguided beliefs. Most violent criminals will be on the streets again someday, we should be doing everything we can to make sure they are not worse when they come out than when they go in.

Please fell free now to call me an overly forgiving, misguided hippie. You guys are going to have to do a lot more convincing to get me to sign on to this knee-jerk lynch mob you are concocting here, so I guess its all fair

How is it a lynch mob for people to feel that teenaged participants in a home-invasion robbery who violently beat a little old lady, should not be rewarded with a trip to the Inauguration celebrations? You're stretching credibility by calling that a knee-jerk lynch mob.

Someone else mentioned that there have to be some at-risk kids somewhere who are more successfully resisting the temptations of taking the easy way out of committing street crimes. Wouldn't such at-risk kids who HAVEN'T committed violent felonies be more worthy of such a reward?

How about letting the violent felons watch the inauguration festivities on TV with some soda and munchies that night - if they've behaved withing the guidelines of the institution they're in recently beforehand?

Rehabbing young offenders is why they're in some kind of halfway house already. Bringing young convicts to the Inauguration sends the wrong message though, IMO. As another poster also said, this is probably for the benefit of some corrections officer who is trying to finagle a way to attend the inauguration. Fuck that, let him watch it from the facility's TV too, as he watches the inmates.

[atomic charvel guy]

Cali is going nowhere or else I will hang myself.
I have an idea, why don't we just make North and South Dakotah one freakin' state and send all the violent people there? Just a thought.

[lerxstcat]

Dude! I was thinking the same thing! They wouldn't get to go if they would have never beat the old lady up. Its her fault. If she would have never got beat up we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. She should go with them to prove that we can all forgive and "cant we all...just get along?". They should get some camera time too! <insert=sarcasm>

I think the little old lady should be the one who gets to go to the inauguration, not the kids, and the kids should be forced to watch that footage on TV. Then Obama should take note of her, tell her story and discuss the consequences of such actions on even teen offenders.

They they should cut to coverage of the kids watching it all from their place of confinement, which is probably nicer than they rate for what they did.

I hope those kids are rehabbed, but sending them to Obama's inauguration party because they beat down a little old lady is exactly the wrong message to send.

[lerxstcat]

Cali is going nowhere or else I will hang myself.
I have an idea, why don't we just make North and South Dakotah one freakin' state and send all the violent people there? Just a thought.

TOMMY!!! How ya doin', my friend? I hope things are gettin' better for you, man!

[marcus]

sit in judgment ?

a court convicted these kids ,not I.Agreed the only info I have seen on this is the article here ,but the point is that they have been sentenced to a sentence of discipline ,not awarded frequent flyer miles.Am I suggesting that they're iredeemable - NO ,but as someone who tries positive reinforcment at home (with my children).I always remember positive / I.E. good behavior leads to privilages and other fun things ,bad behavior results in loss of privilages and other creative discipline (I'm not a fan of spanking).

Are you somehow claiming that you aren't judging these kids? The LA county probation department, who has been charged with carrying out the sentence of these kids, thinks that this action is appropriate. You disagree, which is your right, but I fail to see how this is done without judging them.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that you said they were irredeemable, but some of the comments in this thread seemed to imply that.

Knee-jerk lynch mob ?
put the pipe down bro ,suggesting that someone serve they're sentence as court deemed fair is in no way a mob mentality !!!If the sentencing was unfair ,they're are appeals and what not.I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.You overly forgiving misguided hippie

Merry Christmass all
Jay

This has nothing to do with their sentencing. Its not like they are being set free. Jail sentences can include such things as work release, detention only on weekends, conjugal visits, etc. If the probation board thinks that this is appropriate for the rehabilitation of this kids then I don't see any reason to second guess it based on the very little information given in this article. As for the knee-jerk lynch mob comment, the kind of response your are seeing in this thread is really quite typical of this site, and thus the comment.

[marcus]

How is it a lynch mob for people to feel that teenaged participants in a home-invasion robbery who violently beat a little old lady, should not be rewarded with a trip to the Inauguration celebrations? You're stretching credibility by calling that a knee-jerk lynch mob.

Perhaps my comment was a little strong, but see my post above, I think it is appropriate.

Someone else mentioned that there have to be some at-risk kids somewhere who are more successfully resisting the temptations of taking the easy way out of committing street crimes. Wouldn't such at-risk kids who HAVEN'T committed violent felonies be more worthy of such a reward?

How about letting the violent felons watch the inauguration festivities on TV with some soda and munchies that night - if they've behaved withing the guidelines of the institution they're in recently beforehand?

Rehabbing young offenders is why they're in some kind of halfway house already. Bringing young convicts to the Inauguration sends the wrong message though, IMO. As another poster also said, this is probably for the benefit of some corrections officer who is trying to finagle a way to attend the inauguration. Fuck that, let him watch it from the facility's TV too, as he watches the inmates.

You are welcome to your opinion. I was merely trying to express that, imo, there is not enough information in the original article to draw any concrete conclusions at all. In fact, the article clearly aims to inflame. Mission accomplished I guess