Americans: Never talk to the police!

[markD]

AK, i have a weird question...are you african-american? the only people i hear talk like you are my african-american friends. they fear and distrust the police even though they are educated, honorable men....

[Joelski]

Sounds like a great TV show idea!!! :ROTF:

Just like a cop runs into you he does not know if you are a good guy or bad guy. Same goes the other way you dont know if he is a good guy or bad guy.

Part of my paranoid behavior about LEOs was a personal run in I had with some crooked cops. Let me break down what they do and this story checks out.

The city I was in has a police evidence locker in the PD just like any other department. The locker is so full that the city has to contract out storage to places like Public Storage for evidence storage. Evidence has to be held for a certain amount of time and then can be disposed of. This can be years sometimes.

I cant go into details since it was by accident I stumbled upon this but a group of cops in this department were going into the contracted evidence lockers and removing drugs and replacing them with cut. They were also using stolen items from evidence and would plant them in peoples homes that threatened to say something.

As far as I am aware this city and PD is still doing this to this day and it is a small group of cops involved. I never followed up to see if anything came of any investigation. I really dont want to know.

[AK47]

Now say you lawyer up instead. You ARE going in for questioning, since it's usually the guilty that lawyer up in the cops' experience. You might even get put into a lineup, and if you happen to look similar to the actual perp, you might get picked out by an eyewitness.

This is BS most criminals incriminate themselves. Watch COPS all the arrests are mostly made by statements of the perps against themselves.

When you plead the 5th or lawyer up there is no questioning to go to. If it makes it as far as court that is the time to answer questions if you so chose to. LE's job is not to take statements and use it as evidence for you ever.

[Joelski]

We can remove the 4th ammendmant from the constitution also to help free up the "Man's" time. I mean that sounds reasonable we got nothing here to hide.

You made your point, I'm making mine. If you force an officer to get a warrant as much "just to fuck with him" as because it's procedure, would you be willing to go to jail, or face the death penalty if a serious crime results in a death and can be attributed to that officer being out of his district getting a frivolous warrant rather than being available to respond to the call? Seems to me, if you have nothing to hide, you would consent. If you do have something illegal, you might be willing to take such a risk. Now, what if it were a member of your family, or some other loved one that bites it while the officer is detained from his duty obtaining a frivolous warrant, just because you can make him do so?

[AK47]

AK, i have a weird question...are you african-american? the only people i hear talk like you are my african-american friends. they fear and distrust the police even though they are educated, honorable men....

To tell you the truth I grew up around and most of my friends are minorities. My parents were immigrants from Eastern Europe so I am white. I lived in a lot of "rough" areas nothing too hardcore like Cleveland and seen alot of shit in my day and was fortunate to get a decent education. Most of my friends think I am still a little "distrusting of the man" but hey thats just me.

The JBThugery is getting strong is this thread.

Do you people not know that if you do not excercise your rights you will lose them.

Anyone read the Federalist papers? The Founding Fathers were super paranoid compared to me.

[AK47]

You made your point, I'm making mine. If you force an officer to get a warrant as much "just to fuck with him" as because it's procedure, would you be willing to go to jail of face the death penalty if a serious crime results in a death and can be attributed to that officer being out of his district getting a frivolous warrant rather than being available to respond to the call? Seems to me, if you have nothing to hide, you would consent. If you do have something illegal, you might be willing to take such a risk. Now, what if it were a member of your family, or some other loved one that bites it while the officer is detained from his duty obtaining a frivolous warrant, just because you can make him do so?

How long am I going to be detained? World could end while I am being detained according to you not just loved ones dying. Sky could fall in as well.

An hour or two then after "obtaining a frivolous warrant" those are your words. You would find nothing then the department has to consider risk of a lawsuit since the PC to get the warrant was probably week.

I would rather go home knowing my rights were exercised, instead of going home feeling dirty and violated my car was tossed up.

[joelayres]

If you force an officer to get a warrant as much "just to fuck with him" as because it's procedure, would you be willing to go to jail, or face the death penalty if a serious crime results in a death and can be attributed to that officer being out of his district getting a frivolous warrant rather than being available to respond to the call? Seems to me, if you have nothing to hide, you would consent. If you do have something illegal, you might be willing to take such a risk. Now, what if it were a member of your family, or some other loved one that bites it while the officer is detained from his duty obtaining a frivolous warrant, just because you can make him do so?

This point is bullshit - if it had any merit, the cops could be held responsible for any crime that occurred while they made a donut stop. Getting a warrant is the duty of an officer IF he has probable cause. If he doesn't have probable cause, he's gonna send you on your way.

[Joelski]

The JBThugery is getting strong is this thread.

What's that?

Are you accusing me of something when all I did was ask a question? Didn't you allude to disliking that exact type of treatment?

[Joelski]

This point is bullshit - if it had any merit, the cops could be held responsible for any crime that occurred while they made a donut stop. Getting a warrant is the duty of an officer IF he has probable cause. If he doesn't have probable cause, he's gonna send you on your way.

I understand that. You OTOH, might not, at least in the context of this conversation. Go back and reread the past two page and rejoin. Also, have another cluebomb: All an officer needs from a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide is permission. AK is saying he would make the cop follow the warrant procedure just because he can.

[Joelski]

Bottom line: Law abiding citizens don't have to ponder or lord "their rights" about in such a fashion. People that are acutely aware of their rights are often found to be using them to skirt legal issues.

Have a nice day!

[AK47]

What's that?

Are you accusing me of something when all I did was ask a question? Didn't you allude to disliking that exact type of treatment?

Low blow It was a off color remark I should not have went there.

I understand that. You OTOH, might not, at least in the context of this conversation. Go back and reread the past two page and rejoin. Also, have another cluebomb: All an officer needs from a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide is permission. AK is saying he would make the cop follow the warrant procedure just because he can.

Thats right I would make a LEO follow the warrant procedure because it is my Civil right to. I dont understand why more people dont do this.

One thing I want to add. If you pull me over at night I do turn on my light and put my hands on the wheel and get the paperwork when a LEO requests it. I will answer your questions on a traffic stop and am respectful to an extant.

The problem I have is if I am stopped for a "fishing expedition" you know the "I pulled you over because your liscence plate light is out." I am going to make you follow protocol since you are taking time out of my day. I also may get compensation for it later and the PD may learn not to violate my rights next time.

[AK47]

Bottom line: Law abiding citizens don't have to ponder or lord "their rights" about in such a fashion. People that are acutely aware of their rights are often found to be using them to skirt legal issues.

Have a nice day!

This is horrible.

I think this proves my point , anyone who is aware of their civil rights is a criminal?

The founding dads would spin in their graves if they read that post.

[joelayres]

AK is saying he would make the cop follow the warrant procedure just because he can.

And that is his constitutional right, ergo he could in no way be held responsible for anything.

Look, this thread has become pretty incomprehensible, which is a shame because it could have very well led to an intelligent discussion.

I can only speak from personal experience, so I'll leave this thread with the following for you all to ponder:

In my lifetime, I have been pulled over by the police at gunpoint no less than three times - once in Gainesville FL, once in Alexandria VA, and the last in Phoenix AZ. In all three instances I was guilty of nothing more than moving violations, but happened to be in areas that were hotspots for drug trafficking. In all three instances, I followed the officers instructions and conducted myself in a respectful manner. I answered their questions as to where I was coming from and going to and what my business was in the area. In two of the instances I was asked if they could search my vehicle and I politely told them that I would rather that they did not unless they had specific probable cause for a warrant. In all three instances, I walked away without being thrown on the ground, slammed on the car or otherwise being roughed up. In all three cases, I was not only on my way within 15 or 20 minutes but I walked without even receiving a traffic citation, which was the reason for all three stops in the first place.

I firmly believe the reason I was not roughed up or hassled further is because I treated the officers with respect, which they indeed returned. Had I given them unnecessary attitude I'm quite certain that the outcome would have been much more unpleasant on my part.

Moral of the story:

A little bit of common sense, courtesy and respect go a long way.

[Joelski]

Moral of the story:

A little bit of common sense, courtesy and respect go a long way.

Couldn't agree more with what you said. Courtesy is mutual. What I fail to understand is why someone can be so much as looked at by a police officer and feel persecution? As children, we are taught that police are good, are meant to be trusted and function on the side of law abiding citizens. I don't dispute that there are bad cops, there are bad preachers, doctors and lawyers too. Life is too damn short to be afraid of the good guys; that kind of paranoia is not healthy.

AK: The general public (AKA: society) does not spend their waking hours thinking about rights and the law; that is what we pay police and polititians, etc.. for. Your response was predictable: Paint with a broad brush and see the bad in every cop; paint with a broad brush to downplay my point. I am truly sorry that conditions are such where you live that you feel this way about law enforcement.

[åron]

First, lawyers are expensive.

Second, if an officer has probable cause he really will not need a warrant to search you or your vehicle; he may or may not ask before doing so, but if he indeed has REAL reason to believe you are hiding weapons, drugs, whatnot he will search your vehicle or call for the k-9 unit - warrant be damned. That's the way it is here.

They will ask in general to search your vehicle and it is NOT imprudent to exercise your rights against unlawful searches. Cops love exercising their power and will ask. Many a citizen has been arrested or cited on evidence gained in unwarranted searches.

So, be cooperative, answer the questions truthfully without going into too much detail, but don't just let them search you when they ask. If the cop seems really stupid and he's got a hard on to search, maybe let him, but be advised: if they think you're hiding something they may rip your car to shreds trying to find it. Your recourse in that situation is meager.