Americans: Never talk to the police!

[phill_up]

I was going to adopt Ben... but you beat me to it

[horns666]

I was going to adopt Ben... but you beat me to it

..You can have JacksonVHT, I'm already raising Satan's spawn.

OK, we can both have Ben..joint custody. I'll have him on the weekends. We could go out in my Cobra and give people the finger..weather permitting of course..

..and we will form a family band with trombones and flutes playing, and tour the countryside, and you won't be invited..JacksonVHT!!

[Newc]

From About.com:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/miranda.htm

The Miranda rights do not protect you from being arrested, only from incriminating yourself during questioning. All police need to legally arrest a person is "probable cause" -- an adequate reason based on facts and events to believe the person has committed a crime.

Police are required to "Read him his (Miranda) rights," only before interrogating a suspect. While failure to do so may cause any subsequent statements to be thrown out of court, the arrest may still be legal and valid.

Also without reading the Miranda rights, police are allowed to ask routine questions like name, address, date of birth, and Social Security number necessary to establishing a person's identity. Police can also administer alcohol and drug tests without warning, but persons being tested may refuse to answer questions during the tests. Source: Court TV Legal Survival Guide

Yes, you can say you want a lawyer before even answering these general-info questions (name, age, etc). Despite the personal feelings of the cop in this matter, it would be idiotic and childish of said cop to cop an attitude.
If you cannot accept the fact that some people will invoke any Constitutionally protected Right, you don't need to be a cop.


However, it might be in the cop's best interest to assume the person has something to hide, whether it be directly related to the call they're responding to or not. I assume the local court would have to decide whether or not that constituted probable cause, thus allowing the cop to place you under arrest.

[LouSiffer]

Well, here is what I did when I had some early 20-something fucktard that thought he knew the law better then me and that he was being a smart ass to show off for his friends. I had several other witnesses that said this guy was in the area when stuff went down:

Me: Hey, I would like to ask you a few questions about what may have went down here tonight. Is that okay?

Him: I dunno....I guess.

Me: Did you see ( can't remember the scenario, insert your own )

Him: I don't have to tell you shit.

Me: Can you at least tell me your personal info for my report. ( Name, SS#, etc.)

Him: No, I don't have to say anything to you.

Me: Sir, you are not under arrest or a suspect, I was told you might have seen what happened and that could help me out.

Him: ( thinks he is super cool in front of his friends at this point since he basically told me to blow off twice already and I have been very nice about it) So what if I seen something, I don't have to tell you shit.

Me: On goes the handcuffs, he is just now charged with Felony Obstruction.


Oh, and JVHT, you reming me alot of this kid. A perfect blend of arrogance and ignorance. -Lou

[joelayres]

Cleveland Metal,

If I have misconstrued anything you are trying to say, please accept my apology.

Believe me when I tell you that I wouldn't want the job of a Cop for all the tea in China - the shit you guys have to put up with from true scumbags is beyond most of our comprehension. The problem is, not everyone that Cops encounter is nor deserves to be treated like the true scumbags. But, simply because a person chooses to exercise their rights there is automatically a presumption of "something to hide" by most LE officials. Even the Cop in the video pointed this out and further elaborated that juries tend to see it the same way. This flies in the face of what our founding fathers intended.

Far too often - especially in recent years with the proliferation of DNA testing - we are learning just how many people actually do get convicted in spite of being fully innocent. Given this knowledge, it is wise and prudent to be aware of and to fully assert ones rights. I, like most other people here, truly want the actual scumbags off the streets - but not at the expense of locking up a few innocent people along the way. Our rights are intended to minimize this occurance.

Now, I don't believe that there are many Cops and/or prosecutors who set out to convict the wrong people, but the problem is that even when confronted with solid evidence after the fact they don't want to man up and admit that they were wrong. Look at the case of Ray Krone - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Krone .

[horns666]

Well, here is what I did when I had some early 20-something fucktard that thought he knew the law better then me and that he was being a smart ass to show off for his friends. I had several other witnesses that said this guy was in the area when stuff went down:

Me: Hey, I would like to ask you a few questions about what may have went down here tonight. Is that okay?

Him: I dunno....I guess.

Me: Did you see ( can't remember the scenario, insert your own )

Him: I don't have to tell you shit.

Me: Can you at least tell me your personal info for my report. ( Name, SS#, etc.)

Him: No, I don't have to say anything to you.

Me: Sir, you are not under arrest or a suspect, I was told you might have seen what happened and that could help me out.

Him: ( thinks he is super cool in front of his friends at this point since he basically told me to blow off twice already and I have been very nice about it) So what if I seen something, I don't have to tell you shit.

Me: On goes the handcuffs, he is just now charged with Felony Obstruction.


Oh, and JVHT, you reming me alot of this kid. A perfect blend of arrogance and ignorance. -Lou

Bingo..that's how's it done in the real world. Lou, we never worked together right? It sure seems like we did.

You guys can keep flappin' the "Cop stuff" :ROTF:

+Well I watch Law and Order..and yada yada yada..

=Oh yeah..well once on Starsky and Hutch..rable rable rable..

+OK then..I saw this episode on COPS and yada yada yada..

*Well I was on COPS..the guy with his shirt off..bulsshi bullshit bullshit..

@Well on The Sheild ..once there was this wamba wamba wamba...

!!! Well I used to watch Barreta with Robert Blake..sings intro "don't go to bed with the price on your head...and keep you're eye on the sparrow..when the goin' get's narrow...don't do it!!"



Everyone Talk Talk talk..while the real ones just walk walk walk.

[Jayster]

As far as this police bullshit (again).. you're all a little "Off". We NEVER give Miranda Rights when making an arrest, because we always forget. But..we ALWAYS put it in our report that we did.
Bill Z Bub

Bill,

First off thank you for your service.

The above comment I hope was written out of frustration, SURE they're are cases were this would apply. I.E. - some asshole with a hostage (take a clean lethal shot to the head, hell yeah (or some fucktard lawyer will get them off, because they refuse to take their meds or stupid shit like that). Or even worse, you could have a positively ID'd scumbag, who commits mass murder on camera and it costs the taxpayers millions of dollars on trials then retrials, and some jurys refuse the death penalty.

Cops LOVE shouted utterances, either by being intox, excitement or just plain stupid..it legally sticks, so works for me!!
Bill Z Bub

This would probably lead to some great stories.

But there does need to be a system of checks and balances, with any entity that holds power over American citizens, unfortunately policy tends to be written in favor reducing individual freedoms. I for one disagree strongly with nanny state mentality. The police should not be able to pull over a motorist for not wearing his (or her) seatbelt, but we as a people should try to understand that the police have a thankless (generally low paying) job to do.

It seems to me that most kids are brought up disrespecting the police, this is not entirely right either. Our system(as it's come to be) is flawed, so in general I would agree with jvht's post in that - don't be a dumbass when talking with the law. General questions are fine, if you're to stupid(or paranoid) to know the difference - don't respond. Sure you'll probably be given a hard time possibly detained or arrested. I also disagree with supposed guiltyness, if someone dosn't want to talk to the police. It is their constitutionally given choice.

So in closing(end of rambling)

Let's try to show a little more respect to the police

AND let's not shit on the constitution.


Merry Christmass all
Jay

[joelayres]

Well, here is what I did when I had some early 20-something fucktard that thought he knew the law better then me and that he was being a smart ass to show off for his friends. I had several other witnesses that said this guy was in the area when stuff went down:

Me: Hey, I would like to ask you a few questions about what may have went down here tonight. Is that okay?

Him: I dunno....I guess.

Me: Did you see ( can't remember the scenario, insert your own )

Him: I don't have to tell you shit.

Me: Can you at least tell me your personal info for my report. ( Name, SS#, etc.)

Him: No, I don't have to say anything to you.

Me: Sir, you are not under arrest or a suspect, I was told you might have seen what happened and that could help me out.

Him: ( thinks he is super cool in front of his friends at this point since he basically told me to blow off twice already and I have been very nice about it) So what if I seen something, I don't have to tell you shit.

Me: On goes the handcuffs, he is just now charged with Felony Obstruction.

-Lou

Lou,

Honest question for you - not trying to be a smart-ass:
Was your decision to make an arrest based on the fact that this guy didn't want to make a statement, or was it based on the fact that he was utterly disrespectful and deserved a kick in the ass?

[horns666]

No problemo Jay..

I could writes book(s) that would make the police as well as civilans pissed!!! All true..all honest..

I would have deathreats..ior possible hits..serioulsy.

Well, leave it at that. Honestly, you guys don't have a clue about some of the shit I've done, witnessed or seen. I still can't believe it) I'll keep it like that until sombody pays me enough money to publish a book that rolls over everything and everyone including mayors, judges, cops, and police unions...ect..ect.

Cops are simple pawns..you want to find the real corruption start with the Mayor's adminstration and court system. they work hand in hand and don't give a fuck about its people or their police dept.

[Newc]

But, simply because a person chooses to exercise their rights there is automatically a presumption of "something to hide" by most LE officials. Even the Cop in the video pointed this out and further elaborated that juries tend to see it the same way. This flies in the face of what our founding fathers intended.

However, you as the individual must decide what's more important - your right to refuse civilized conversation and perhaps provide the cops with pertinent information regarding a crime, or providing that information to help the cops catch the scumbags.

Personally, if you place the ideaology behind the refusal above your desire to help get the criminals off the street, you should get grief from the cop.


Always remember SpiderMan: He had the chance to stop a petty thief, but exercised his right to stay out of it. That act cost him someone dear to him. Yes it's a comic book. Look around and you'll find plenty of stories that mirror that exact scenario.

If you have information about a crime - the cops are looking for a white box van and you saw a white box van tearassing around a corner just before the cops got there, or the cops are looking for an armed robbery suspect, an escapee, a juvenile in a purple tracksuit, etc etc, and you saw the suspect or believe you saw someone fitting that general description half a block away, offer it up.

Let the cops worry about whether or not you saw the van or suspect they were looking for, but at least contribute a bit more to society than just gracing us with your presence or invoking an Amendment simply because it exists.

[horns666]

You are obligated to give the police your information and carry ID at all times if an officer asks.. Even if innocent and refuse you will be held for "proper ID"..but that NEVER happends. Not in all my years. People withhold info for a reason..until further invest revels what that reason is. That ALWAYS happends.

A typical night on patrol c/w loitering for the puposes of drug activity. (known drugs boys hanging around the corners in a high drug area at 3AM)

Me: OK, give me you're SSN#..if it comes back nothing in file ..you're going to jail.

Them: I can't remember it..

Me: OK, (puts car in drive) you're goin'..

Them: no wait...wait..

Me: Do you have a warrant? I'm going to find out.

Them:..yes...here's my social.......I have a warrant.

Me: I know..you'll be ok.

[Newc]

But there does need to be a system of checks and balances, with any entity that holds power over American citizens, unfortunately policy tends to be written in favor reducing individual freedoms.

Stop! Cops don't have "power over Americans". They have the authority and the responsibility to enforce and uphold the laws of the Country, State, County, and Municipality, but they do not have "power".

The police should not be able to pull over a motorist for not wearing his (or her) seatbelt,

Yes, they should. If you're too cool to wear a seatbelt, consider yourself to be in forfeit of the priveledge of driving. Proceed to your nearest Highway Patrol/DMV and turn in your license for a Photo ID with no driving priveledge attached to it, then get your ass a bus pass.

If you find seatbelts constrictive, grow up and get over it. It's not a symbol of your rights and freedoms being infringed or constricted. It's not Big Brother conditioning you for the impending takeover. It's a safety feature that at best will save your life and at least prevent you from flying out of your car and killing someone else when you roll your Mustang 5.0 while trying to impress some pudnibbler.


And no, you don't look nearly as cool riding a streetbike with a helmet on. You look even worse when your melon is smeared across a busy road making me late for work while the fire department hoses your brains off the street.

[Newc]

Lou,

Honest question for you - not trying to be a smart-ass:
Was your decision to make an arrest based on the fact that this guy didn't want to make a statement, or was it based on the fact that he was utterly disrespectful and deserved a kick in the ass?

Offhand I'd say it was the Obstruction Of Justice. He was identified as a witness and admitted to being a witness and refused to divulge the information he had. Ergo, he is guilty of obstruction of justice, which outweighs the 5th Amendment.

Now, whether or not the guy was just being a jerk when he said "so what if I did see something?" has no bearing on the issue. The attending officer was not engaging the guy in a hypothetical discussion, so there was no precedent for a "What If..?" response.

[phill_up]

i got pulled over by a cop the other day for doing 57 in a 40. The cop was probably expecting me to be an asshole but we got along really well. Any question he ask I answered because I had nothing to hide. he dropped the ticket down to like 5 mph over the speed limit making my fine $49. I shot the bull with him for a minute and he was a really cool guy. we had one of those really good handshakes. I called down to the city hall of this town and those people were unbelievably polite as well. Its kind of strange that I get a traffic ticket and end up complimenting the cop as well as the city hall employees for their excellent Public relations. sometimes being polite is contagious, unfortunately its something that all of society could improve on.

[joelayres]

Offhand I'd say it was the Obstruction Of Justice. He was identified as a witness and admitted to being a witness and refused to divulge the information he had. Ergo, he is guilty of obstruction of justice, which outweighs the 5th Amendment.

Sorry do disagree - but NOTHING outweighs the Constitution
Any lawyer worth his salt would get this charge dismissed

"The crime of obstruction of justice includes crimes committed by judges, prosecutors, attorneys general, and elected officials in general. It is misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance in the conduct of the office. Most commonly it is prosecuted as a crime for perjury by a non governmental official primarily because of prosecutorial discretion. Prosecutors and attorneys general however commit obstruction of justice when they fail to prosecute judges and other government officials for malfeasance, misfeasance or nonfeasance in office."

"Modern obstruction of justice, in United States jurisdictions, refers to the crime of offering interference of any sort to the work of police, investigators, regulatory agencies, prosecutors, or other (usually government) officials. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice. Common law jurisdictions other than the United States tend to use the wider offense of Perverting the course of justice."

"Generally, obstruction charges are laid when it is discovered that a person questioned in an investigation, who is not a suspect, has lied to the investigating officers. However, in most common law jurisdictions, the right to remain silent allows any person who is questioned by police merely to refuse to answer questions posed by an investigator without giving any reason for doing so. (In such a case, the investigators may subpoena the witness to give testimony under oath in court) It is not relevant if the person lied to protect a suspect (such as setting up a false alibi, even if the suspect is in fact innocent) or to hide from an investigation of their own activities (such as to hide his involvement in another crime). Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence."