Americans: Never talk to the police!

[JacksonVHT]

I also do not believe that a badge is a magic talisman that turns an ordinary man into a hero, or sets them above reproach or temptation.

There are some people that simply should not be cops, and some of those end up either on the take or thinking/acting like they can do no wrong.

Exactly.

Officers who demand submission simply because they are officers are dip shits.

They're the same cops who propose banning the carry of concealed weapons and then get arrested for extortion or false incrimination.

[JacksonVHT]

Oh, 23, quite a difference, you're very mature then...

And from your posts I've read... It would be a waste to argue it with you...

Snore.

Get a new routine.

[Cleveland Metal]

Why argue? You're all of 23. You know it all my man.

What would I possibly say that would make you actually have a clue? Nadda...

[joelayres]

What is the difference between pre-arrest questioning and "actual questioning"?

For the record, I did read your entire post and I do comprehend it - and what you stated is that the police have a duty to disclose the Miranda warning to a person prior to "actual questioning". So then, what does "actual questioning" mean and where does it start? Does it start before an arrest is effected? Does it start after an arrest in the interrogation room?

Your statement, while "technically" correct, is misleading due to the phrase "actual questioning". The context in which you reference "actual questioning" means an after arrest interrogation. To most people, "actual questioning" is any question that is actually asked - regardless of when it is asked - pre or post arrest.

I'm just trying to make that point clear - not trying to attack you or make you wrong.

The bottom line is this - there are two things to say to police - I have nothing to say, and Lawyer.

[joelayres]

And, I might add - if the way you tend to treat people on this forum is how you intend to treat people after you become a police officer, perhaps you should consider another line of work. You do not seem to have the temperament to be a police officer.

[JacksonVHT]

Why argue? You're all of 23. You know it all my man.

What would I possibly say that would make you actually have a clue? Nadda...

Totally, so instead of respectfully making a rebuttal to a "23 year old," who hasn't disrespected you once on this forum, you post irrelevant, pretentious, self-loving bullshit that makes zero sense. Way to go, you've earned yourself a warm glass of AIDS.

The sheer level of narcissism it takes to tell someone they're immature because of their age after your responses is mind boggling.

And, I might add - if the way you tend to treat people on this forum is how you intend to treat people after you become a police officer, perhaps you should consider another line of work. You do not seem to have the temperament to be a police officer.

Careful, your age can or will be used against you in the narcissistic court of Cleveland Metal.

[joelayres]

Careful, your age can or will be used against you in the narcissistic court of Cleveland Metal.

I'm 45 and don't need to resort to belittling others to make my point.
For what it's worth, I agree with you totally. The irony is that here we have a person who will probably end up being a sworn peace officer - sworn to uphold the laws of this country - who is in essence telling us that we should be willing to give up rights which have been bestowed upon us by the laws of this country, because it will take him too much time to write his reports.

On the other hand, people take what this guys says too far. So, be forewarned that if you are being like this during an interview, it may likely turn into an interrogation and your chances of being detained and probably placed in custody go up exponentially.

Imagine trying to get through a simple report that you HAVE TO WRITE at every scene and some dumbo has to see his lawyer before he can tell me about some simple issue, and this happened EVERY TIME I had to interview someone for a report, my god, there'd be so many people being detained and so many lawyers getting rich for no reason it would be hilarious.

Remember - if you're gonna get arrested, you're gonna get arrested - nothing you can possibly say will get you out of it. On the other hand, you could say something that would lead to being arrested so the best thing to say is:

"I have nothing to say"
"Lawyer"

[phill_up]

perhaps a better lesson is "never commit a crime and lie about it".

+100,000,000

[Cleveland Metal]

The irony is that here we have a person who will probably end up being a sworn peace officer - sworn to uphold the laws of this country - who is in essence telling us that we should be willing to give up rights which have been bestowed upon us by the laws of this country, because it will take him too much time to write his reports.

Damn dude, You totally don't get what I said at all...

First, I said the Lawyer was essentially correct. The cop in the video drove it home nicely.

I ALSO "basically" said that if for every small report, if people wanted to see a lawyer, it would fill the courts, the jails and make the lawyers a ton of money. If you think an officer that is just trying to fill out a report is going to just let someone go because they want a lawyer, you're mistaken.

Your non-cooperation over something simple will likely end up with you being detained and a pissy cop that may not be as nice as he might have been with some simple cooperation... Seeing a lawyers, even over simple things, MEANS, you're gonna sit in jail a bit.

Bear in mind that reports are likely close 75% of what LE does... Smart cops write good reports. You dont "try not to write them" as you need them to document stuff as closely as possible. And, the amount of reports you write, correlates to what staffing/funding your area gets.

Few reports equal that there must be no crime and you get less staff. We want MORE STAFF, trust me. Tho, some backwoods cops prolly don't care I guess. City cops need reports, whether they like em or not. Personally, I like to write them.

If you are in deep shit, then yes, demand a lawyer. But ANYONE would do that ANYWAYS. Not like you guys are brain surgeons here coming up with recommending that.

I mostly said (and so did the cop on the video) if you're stupid, then get a lawyer before you DO say something stupid. If it's something simple, and you AREN'T stupid and can state something that won't incriminate yourself, get the situation finished without having to go to jail to get a statement.

I really don't see where you're getting the angst to down me as an officer or my abilities, other than you're obviously a closet LE hater that wants to find "something" to beef about.

And please note, I was given commendations for being one of the top two for quality and depth in my reports by SEVERAL Municipal judges here out of an academy of 81 recruits. I do not slack on reports, or short cut, BS, or even come close to violating civil rights during interrogation. I want MY interogations to stand up in court and be beyond reproach, I assure you, as they WILL be scrutinized closely by my prosecutor and then even moreso by the defense.

I was also commended on interogation technique and quality of testimony by the the same Judge, our city Prosecutors AND our Public Defenders office (that's the hard one)... Which essentially means I was fair in my interogation, acquired evidence that was material and just, wrote reports that were pretty outstanding and provided far beyond what is required to the defendant to guarantee his civil rights were held to the utmost standard during all aspects of the investigation. It's onlly to my advantage.

The way modern law and defense lawyers are, this isn't conspiracy land, you really have to do your work well as an officer for it to stand up in court. if you don't a good defense lawyer wil tear you apart. Again, I guess some backwoods places are still offering ways to railroad people to make a case.

So, with that... Not much reason for me to keep blabbering as it probably falls on deaf ears with you two.

[AK47]

What is the difference between pre-arrest questioning and "actual questioning"?

There are three types of contact police make:

1.Consenual

2.Detaining

3.Arrest

The first one means what it says but alot of people are not aware that their contact with LEO is consenual. If you are walking down the street and a cop drives by and starts talking to you and you respond you are engaging in consenual contact. Anything you say or do will be used against you and never for you.

The second which is detainment. Lets say this cop that tries to engage you in conversation fails because you respond. "No time to talk officer I am busy and on my way somewhere." He can detain you for questioning only if you meet certain requirements. Like a crime commited nearby and you fit the description of said person.

It is important when a cop is attempting consenual contact after you decline to ask "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?" repeat as nessasry and dont answer any questions.

Last there is Arrest. If there is a warrant out for your arrest the LEO already has sufficient evidence to arrest you. Most arrests are made by consenual contact and the arrestee continuing to talk to the officer to give them enough evidence for the officer to make the arrest.

I hope this clears things up.

[Cleveland Metal]

I've never heard that term used (consensual) in my training at all.

Mostly, we just got: Interview, then that "may" lead to interrogation/actual questioning, post Miranda. We were trained that if we got to a scene and the guy started confessing, we need to IMMEDIATELY get his Miranda read. Cops have to dot their I's and cross their T's, Un-Mirandized questioning gets thrown out of court.

What you guys don't seem to get, and yeah I do understand not "wanting" to answer questions, but not answering question at all is usually a great way to get the curiousity and angst up on a cop. He's probably then gonna find a reason to detain you.

Soon as you start not answering, being a "no person", you become an object that gets checked out closely. The cop doesn't know what you're hiding, and has to assume you may be doing more than standing up for your rights. Most people that play these games are quite often criminals hoping they won't get detected.

You realize you generally don't come out the winner when bumming the cops out right? You just can't "really" win.

You may feel great you stood up to the man, but, he's got a job to do and wants to go home that night. You may not have done a thing, but getting all froggy about answering a simple or quick question is sure way to start getting long questions, haha... And, training usually tells us "no persons" that are playing the game, are hiding something. And cops don't wanna take a chance on ignoring a real criminal just because some guy won't answer some silly question. Or, maybe you just piss off some cop. either way, you don't usually exactly win.

Sorta like you may not take the trip, but you'll take the ride.

Again as mentioned, if it's a serious situation, don't answer questions and a cop would of course understand you wanting a lawyer. But, hiding something small, or common info that's not incriminating makes em wonder what's up with you. Am I sorta making sense?

[texasfury]

When a cop questions you, your best interest is not his main concern. EVER.

[AK47]

I've never heard that term used (consensual) in my training at all.

Mostly, we just got: Interview, then that "may" lead to interrogation/actual questioning, post Miranda. We were trained that if we got to a scene and the guy started confessing, we need to IMMEDIATELY get his Miranda read. Cops have to dot their I's and cross their T's, Un-Mirandized questioning gets thrown out of court.

What you guys don't seem to get, and yeah I do understand not "wanting" to answer questions, but not answering question at all is usually a great way to get the curiousity and angst up on a cop. He's probably then gonna find a reason to detain you.

Soon as you start not answering, being a "no person", you become an object that gets checked out closely. The cop doesn't know what you're hiding, and has to assume you may be doing more than standing up for your rights. Most people that play these games are quite often criminals hoping they won't get detected.

You realize you generally don't come out the winner when bumming the cops out right? You just can't "really" win.

You may feel great you stood up to the man, but, he's got a job to do and wants to go home that night. You may not have done a thing, but getting all froggy about answering a simple or quick question is sure way to start getting long questions, haha... And, training usually tells us "no persons" that are playing the game, are hiding something. And cops don't wanna take a chance on ignoring a real criminal just because some guy won't answer some silly question. Or, maybe you just piss off some cop. either way, you don't usually exactly win.

Sorta like you may not take the trip, but you'll take the ride.

Again as mentioned, if it's a serious situation, don't answer questions and a cop would of course understand you wanting a lawyer. But, hiding something small, or common info that's not incriminating makes em wonder what's up with you. Am I sorta making sense?

You better get some more training or better training those are legal definitions. Here is a source with highlights:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:x_UNtmNzkqsJ:www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0304/knock_and_talk.html%3Bjsessionid%3DB884A2065E0F6DA1E47CDA123673D0DB+consensual+contact+police&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

If you think you can get away with "Sorta like you may not take the trip, but you'll take the ride."

I have and will take badge numbers, then contacted IA and even gotten a friend represented by the ACLU for this type of overbearing behavior. Never saw that cop around my neighborhood after that.

We have a 4th and 5th ammendmant and I intend to use those rights and if I am deprived of them there is hell to pay.

[phill_up]

Damn guys, this has been a very interesting thread. It got a little heated but at the same time there has been some really good information posted from all of you.

[horns666]

By JacksonVHT: "Way to go, you've earned yourself a warm glass of AIDS.
The sheer level of narcissism it takes to tell someone they're immature because of their age after your responses is mind boggling."

NARCISSISM??...:think: :think: :think:

This coming from a fucking noob that makes threads, such as "JacksonVHT delivers hilarity", "Tone advice from JacksonVHT" , "Americans: NEVER talk to the police" by JacksonVHT and then posted a vid of your $1400 Framus that sounds like fuggin' bees in a coffee can..???:think:

You, my portly, young friend with supple, budding moobage ...absolutely SUCK at being narcisstic. You, have earned yourself a cup of Bill Z Bub's warm and lumpy Holliday NOG!!:ROTF:







Now THAT's "Narcisscism" done right!

As far as this police bullshit (again).. you're all a little "Off". We NEVER give Miranda Rights when making an arrest, because we always forget to. But..we ALWAYS put it in our report that we did. You want an honest cop..there, now you got one.

Bad cops weed themselves out because the good cops don't want to work with them. The good definitely outweigh the few dickholes anywhoo..good riddance.

I became a Cleveland Patrolman January 6, 1992..when my supple young suckling was just a tot!!

Listen, this has NOTHING to do with age..some of my best bros here including Ben are 16 years old. Ben being extremely mature, level headed, and wise beyond his years. We also lost a good bro who I was quite fond of that was your age. (see sig) Assholes are ageless..either you are or you're not. As everyone knows, my insticts are cunning and my wit is razor sharp, and I never pull punches..why should I? I've been raising my brow at your nonsense since you joined this forum. You're getting a little too "cocky" for my liking. So, maybe you had this coming. Fuck that, maybe my ass..Clevo is my "real life" bro that introduced me to this forum going on 8 years ago. So, I got his back here and in the real world. You could only be that fortunate..but it's not too late. You can start by stop acting like a spoiled know-it-all punk. You remind me of a budding Vince Sansavere. Who's prolly ironing his cellmate's undies and dancing with heels on. I wonder if the cops read him his fuggin' rights...who gives a fuck!?

Cops LOVE shouted utterances, either by being intox, excitement or just plain stupid..it legally sticks, so works for me!!

JacksonVHT..Behave yourself. You don't want to rub me anymore than you already have. But its nothing that can't be undone at this time...

I'm not saying you always have to agree, just show a little uderstanding, respect. Unless you are just an asshole who is unable at either. Hey, its your thread ..the the floor is yours.

BTW I didn't watch your vid. Why should I? War vets and POWS prolly don't play wargames on Xbox 360 either. Why should they?

Edited: I pulled a few punches. I'm feeling generous..'tis the season.

Bill Z Bub