Americans: Never talk to the police!

[atomic charvel guy]

You need to have a bottle of Anacin Extra strength for the logo

[Jayster]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47
So you dont have a problem arresting someone on a felony beef because they had a old Vicodin in their purse as in 1 pill they forgot about. No priors or history of LE interaction.

No, we have actual criminals to worry about. Many cops I spose might try do that tho. I think that's terrible. Usually, that won't stand unless it's combined with other stuff, and that would be bargained off fast.- Clevometal


Have a laugh on me ;
This morning I had to explain a public indecency charge to the probate judge. The sherrifs deps were both laughing as I explained " I was in the wrong place at the wrong time innocently peeing on a brick wall behind a grocery store". Both deputies were audibly chuckling and the probate judge had to fight from smiling.

Cheers
Jay

[Cleveland Metal]

Not rehash this, but just to mention because you might wish to know....

You better get some more training or better training those are legal definitions. Here is a source with highlights:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:x_UNtmNzkqsJ:www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0304/knock_and_talk.html%3Bjsessionid%3DB884A2065E0F6DA1E47CDA123673D0DB+consensual+contact+police&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

That page is not providing "legal definitions" of the terms of escalation of contact (what you referred to as Consensual, detaining, arrest etc)... They are just describe what they're talking about using those words as description... Maybe you read through it fast?

My training is reasonable to our city needs. We didn't use those terms whatsoever as our escalation of contact, and I've poured through and been tested succesfully on the Ohio Patrol Officers Training Association class material for Laws of Arrest and interogation.

They are still good terms to describe this stuff, just not our escalation of contact, that's all I was getting at.

[Cleveland Metal]

Have a laugh on me ; This morning I had to explain a public indecency charge to the probate judge. The sherrifs deps were both laughing as I explained " I was in the wrong place at the wrong time innocently peeing on a brick wall behind a grocery store". Both deputies were audibly chuckling and the probate judge had to fight from smiling.

Cheers
Jay

Wow, that sucks... How'd that go? haha...

Sadly, innocent peeing actually is Indecent Exposure (Public Indecency here, up to 30 days/$500 3rd degree Misdemeanor) really... Hopefully, they didn't get you on it. Sorta silly since it's behind a store etc... Reasonably innocent...

[Jayster]

CM,

Nah that dumb shit happened 20 yrs ago, but now it's a problem with ccw.
Yeah, I know it's a legit charge. However it was only me and this officer(who snuck up on me in stealth mode before the 1,000,000,000 candle power spot light).

[AK47]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47
So you dont have a problem arresting someone on a felony beef because they had a old Vicodin in their purse as in 1 pill they forgot about. No priors or history of LE interaction.

No, we have actual criminals to worry about. Many cops I spose might try do that tho. I think that's terrible. Usually, that won't stand unless it's combined with other stuff, and that would be bargained off fast.- Clevometal


Have a laugh on me ;
This morning I had to explain a public indecency charge to the probate judge. The sherrifs deps were both laughing as I explained " I was in the wrong place at the wrong time innocently peeing on a brick wall behind a grocery store". Both deputies were audibly chuckling and the probate judge had to fight from smiling.

Cheers
Jay

I know of people having to register as sex offenders for this. You got lucky... I dont piss in public anymore because of that very reason.

[Jayster]

At the request of Jayster; I have Photoshopped a sign to make it more appropriate for this thread:

Thanks Ben, great job !!! :ROTF:

[Ben...]

Thanks Ben, great job !!! :ROTF:

You're welcome Jay!

[AK47]

Not rehash this, but just to mention because you might wish to know....




That page is not providing "legal definitions" of the terms of escalation of contact (what you referred to as Consensual, detaining, arrest etc)... They are just describe what they're talking about using those words as description... Maybe you read through it fast?

My training is reasonable to our city needs. We didn't use those terms whatsoever as our escalation of contact, and I've poured through and been tested succesfully on the Ohio Patrol Officers Training Association class material for Laws of Arrest and interogation.

They are still good terms to describe this stuff, just not our escalation of contact, that's all I was getting at.

Those are terms used by the court systems. I do think you are a cool guy and dont want to come of as a dick but like I said get better training of your legal terms.

Here is a source. I do not make this up. A case cited even originates in Ohio that the SCOTUS heard.

I know there are good cops out there that use common sence in arrest but I really think its in a persons best intrest to STFU 99% of the time. They dont know what they can talk them selves into.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

[Cleveland Metal]

I guess you're not getting what I said...

There really isn't better training for OPOTA class material. OPOTA is OPOTA... I am reviewing my material as we speak.

What you call Consensual, detaining and arrest, are not used as terms in our training as escalation of contact. Yes, what is on that wiki is what happens, and does describes it, but that is just not the terms used that we are trained on... Period. Not really anything to argue about. But saying "I need better training" is an insult bro...

AGAIN.. Yes, it describes what happens... But those aren't the terms they use to train or test us on. Are you understanding what I'm saying there?

And (for the umpteenth time) all I've ever said, yes, if it's serious, absolutelyin your best interest to get a lawyer. But, if it is something simple that will not incriminate you, do you really want to end up going to jail over it to wait for your lawyer to charge you 250 an hour to watch you answer something simple?

Like say it's 2am, you're in your GFs and hear a noise next door and walk outside, and you were then basically "in front of a store that was broken into"... Cops pull up and snatch YOU... All you say is "I want a lawyer"... You're are probably just going to jail and probably then end up being charged. Not like they get out CSI to make sure your DNA isn't in there, haha.. Crime solved! yay copper!

BUT, if you are like, "no sir, I just walked out of my girlfriends house next door here to see what the noise was and thankfully you guys pulled up", and you get her and her parents to corroborate the story, you likely just get to go back to bed. Happy ending....

Isn't that sorta sensible?

[AK47]

I guess you're not getting what I said...

There really isn't better training for OPOTA class material. OPOTA is OPOTA... I am reviewing my material as we speak.

What you call Consensual, detaining and arrest, are not used as terms in our training as escalation of contact. Yes, what is on that wiki is what happens, and does describes it, but that is just not the terms used that we are trained on... Period. Not really anything to argue about. But saying "I need better training" is an insult bro...

AGAIN.. Yes, it describes what happens... But those aren't the terms they use to train or test us on. Are you understanding what I'm saying there?

And (for the umpteenth time) all I've ever said, yes, if it's serious, absolutelyin your best interest to get a lawyer. But, if it is something simple that will not incriminate you, do you really want to end up going to jail over it to wait for your lawyer to charge you 250 an hour to watch you answer something simple?

Like say it's 2am, you're in your GFs and hear a noise next door and walk outside, and you were then basically "in front of a store that was broken into"... Cops pull up and snatch YOU... All you say is "I want a lawyer"... You're are probably just going to jail and probably then end up being charged. Not like they get out CSI to make sure your DNA isn't in there, haha.. Crime solved! yay copper!

BUT, if you are like, "no sir, I just walked out of my girlfriends house next door here to see what the noise was and thankfully you guys pulled up", and you get her and her parents to corroborate the story, you likely just get to go back to bed. Happy ending....

Isn't that sorta sensible?

These are not wiki terms. These are legal terms. You said you were unfamiliar with them when I posted them as it was not in your training. These are terms you will have to know when you are on the stand to testify against the perp.

I will rephrase myself but I am not saying your training is shitty or bad. As a cop you should be aware of Stop and Identify statutes. Its basic CJ 101 stuff. Maybe you just have not got that far or you will learn them in your training soon.

As for the robbery situation you mentioned. I am going to shut my mouth. My lawyer is not going to come out to the scene. No ones lawyer does unless your OJ. The officer can conduct his investigation and interview the GF and others. Then he can chose to release me or I go to jail and am released after they cant charge me. Then if I really want to be a dick I can call the ACLU and IA.

ETA I know what your saying in your training they teach you how to approach said suspect. I am pointing out the terms are legal and you should know them for court.

[AK47]

Eta...

[Cleveland Metal]

I'm aware of this stuff. THEY JUST AREN'T THE TERMS WE ARE TRAINED ON. That simple. What they are saying describes what we do and what happens, but it is just not the phrasing used Escalation of Contact. That's what I'm saying.

I KNOW what I need for court in Ohio, and THOSE TERMS aren't required for it. Maybe OPOTA and Cleveland courts just doesn't know what they're doing I guess.

I'm as trained as it gets in Ohio... Passed every academic testing that there is to pass. I've also been through the whole thing up to testifying in court on just this sorta thing and quite a few others. And was commended on my work by several municipal judges, our prosectors office and our defenders office. Was in the top two in my class of 81 recruits in interrogation and tesyimony in court. I guess that means I did ok.

As for the situation... You're gonna call ACLU and the IA? Wow... For what? If your rights weren't violated. And the officer did no wrong. That's just silly... Officer pulls up and is doing his work. Be a decent citizen and work with him. Your way is a surefire way to have a bad day and spend a lot of money on lawyers and bonds all just to spite some cop...

[joelayres]

Personally, I think the most important factor when interacting with LE is to treat them with respect - in most cases they will return that respect. Nothing to be gained by trying to be a hard-ass or know-it-all with a cop - they have the power to make your life real miserable real quick, but a little respect - even when asserting your rights - goes a long way. I'm reasonably sure the LE officers here will agree.

[Cleveland Metal]

We have a winner for best post!