Americans: Never talk to the police!

[AK47]

I'm aware of this stuff. THEY JUST AREN'T THE TERMS WE ARE TRAINED ON. That simple. What they are saying describes what we do and what happens, but it is just not the phrasing used Escalation of Contact. That's what I'm saying.

I KNOW what I need for court in Ohio, and THOSE TERMS aren't required for it. Maybe OPOTA and Cleveland courts just doesn't know what they're doing I guess.

I'm as trained as it gets in Ohio... Passed every academic testing that there is to pass. I've also been through the whole thing up to testifying in court on just this sorta thing and quite a few others. And was commended on my work by several municipal judges, our prosectors office and our defenders office. Was in the top two in my class of 81 recruits in interrogation and tesyimony in court. I guess that means I did ok.

As for the situation... You're gonna call ACLU and the IA? Wow... For what? If your rights weren't violated. And the officer did no wrong. That's just silly... Officer pulls up and is doing his work. Be a decent citizen and work with him. Your way is a surefire way to have a bad day and spend a lot of money on lawyers and bonds all just to spite some cop...

I said I would call the ACLU or IA if I wanted to be a dick did not say I would do it, really depends on the situation. If I end up getting arrested for some shit I did not do, I would be pissed. If a cop cant conduct his investigation and figure out it was not me that robbed the store then there will be hell to pay. Especially if I get charged. I would not even pay for a lawyer. I dont need to. I will get a Public pretender and tell them how I want my cases defended and what motions I need filed and who I want subpoenaed. I should get OR'd since I have no priors. No need for bail.

You think a Cop is going to work with me to keep me out of jail? Why should I work with them? I respect them for what they do but they better not stop or detain me.

Like I said earlier in the thread the cops in my area know that if they stop me and my friends walking to downtown they better have good reason. I have had a few rookie cops have to call the sarge because they could not figure out how to detain me properly or get me to show ID. Usually the sarge just yelled at the rookie that he was spinning his tires and in the future not to stop me.

I am not a criminal and dont apreciate being treated like one and will make a cops life difficult if I am stopped for no reason and if I end up going to jail over it there will be hell to pay. I have enough common sence to stay out of crime scenes to avoid LE interaction.

It is people like me that keep cops in check because cops will use someone ignorance of their rights to their advantage. Most people just bend over. Most cops dont know how to deal with me and then they call their Sarge or Captain out.

[Cleveland Metal]

Umm, ok... You're my hero hehe... I give.

For the record, Sence is spelled with an S... ie: Sense...

Rock on!

[AK47]

Umm, ok... You're my hero hehe... I give.

For the record, Sence is spelled with an S... ie: Sense...

Rock on!

Thats right I think I wrote pretty good for having a slight buzz of this Vodka I not supposed to drink since I am on antibiotics.

The point is I stay the fuck away from cops because I dont want them making my life difficult or vice versa. I tremendously respect them because if I had to deal with some of those scummy people everyday... well I can only imagine.

Back to my back country squeel like a pig thread...

[guitarsjb]

Thats right I think I wrote pretty good for having a slight buzz of this Vodka I not supposed to drink since I am on antibiotics.

The point is I stay the fuck away from cops because I dont want them making my life difficult or vice versa. I tremendously respect them because if I had to deal with some of those scummy people everyday... well I can only imagine.

Back to my back country squeel like a pig thread...

AK, I've never had a problem with you before..and I really don't now..but, in this thread, some of your posts are really out there. Also, you're not showing your intelligence (feel free to check my spelling, cause I think I fucked that up) if you're drinking while taking antibiotics. It hinders their ability to work properly.

In Johns post about the robbery, you'd really not help the LE guys and just stand there and make them interview everyone else? Why? To what purpose? You did NOTHING wrong..you came down cause you heard a noise..why not tell what you heard? I'm confused. Don't worry that happens easily...

[AK47]

AK, I've never had a problem with you before..and I really don't now..but, in this thread, some of your posts are really out there. Also, you're not showing your intelligence (feel free to check my spelling, cause I think I fucked that up) if you're drinking while taking antibiotics. It hinders their ability to work properly.

In Johns post about the robbery, you'd really not help the LE guys and just stand there and make them interview everyone else? Why? To what purpose? You did NOTHING wrong..you came down cause you heard a noise..why not tell what you heard? I'm confused. Don't worry that happens easily...

Beleive it or not Armed Robbery is a common crime that people are mistakenly arrested for all the time. I am white and believe it or not to alot of other non-white people we look alike. All it would take would be a witness to finger me at the scene.

Anything you say or do will be used against you in court never for you.

You have to understand if I walk into a post-robbery scene where people are hurt I will help and give first aid to anyone along with call 911.

If I step outside my home and am directly questioned about a robbery it would be in my best intrest to STFU. I have seen too many people go down because they thought they were "helping".

I hope you can see where I am coming from with this maybe not.

[bibz]

ak47 is just exercising his paranoia at this stage. This thread was kinda in the right direction, but fatfuck(tm) was just using it to be a cunt. I'll continue my rant about that stupid dick somewhere else.

Cops are people. Treat them as such. How fuckin hard is it. Having rights doesn't mean you must use them all the time every time ffs! The cops trying to do his job, give the guy or gal a fucking break! It's like lawyering up at 'would you like fries with that sir'. ILL SEE YOU IN COURT meanwhile I get to sit in a stinky ass cell and crap on a toilet without a seat. Good times!

I have many friends that became cops, and I've dont ALOT of stupid and crazy shit with them growing up etc. and every single one of them would be excellent to deal with on the job. And their friends from the force are just normal every day guys aswell. They're not evil douchebags trying to get everybody they can in the slammer. Well maybe outside of a few areas of cleveland anyways

Hail Badgeterday!

[LouSiffer]

Yeah, it seems to me AK47, you are pissed at Cleveland for the craptacular laws in your state and how some people fell through the cracks, or there is more to the story than laid before the public eye. Its not his fault....I am fairly sure of it.

This is not a dig at you and in no way to be offensive. I really mean that.

Trust me, showing respect to an officer will get you farther than anything else. Its easier to catch bees with honey than using shit.

You keep referring to terminologies that are not in the OPOTA training. Trust me, John is getting the best training available. I took the same course. The terms you are referring to are not used in Ohio. They are used by people that use a term that appears to umbrella the different terms every state uses in a legal court setting. Not all states are the same. Example: Some states call consensual sex with a minor " Statutory Rape", in Ohio, it is " Rape". Whoever wrote the Wiki article would probably call it "Consensual Fornication of a Minor". A term that would never be used in Ohio courts.

When I arrested someone, there were no different types of arrest. Your ass was cuffed and stuffed...end of story.

I have had people that act like complete douches. I always loved it when they were in the middle of a crowd yelling obscenities at me thinking they knew more than what they did since they had the " back porch lawyer degree". You see, as a cop in Ohio, if someone cusses you out, there really isn't a whole lot you can do, as it is considered "part of the job".

I would look over at a middle aged to elderly person and ask " Does his actions offend you or make you feel threatened?". If that person said "Yes", then Joe Blowhole just bought him a one-way ticket to jail, as it has now become Disorderly Conduct. I would then have that person sign an affidavit and be on my way.

So being a prick CAN get you a long ways....at least to the jail.

You also stated that people were getting busted for these gun laws they did not know anything about regarding removable magazines. By that logic, I don't know for a fact murder is illegal in Idaho, I have never been there. I do not know their laws. So does that mean I get to go on a people shooting spree. No, as has been said many times: Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

Everything Cleveland has said is right on target regarding the Ohio and district laws. People have no clue the hours and the money you have to put into to getting certified. You don't just go to class once a week for a month and take a test. When I took it, it was 4 hours a day Monday through Friday, 8 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday and this lasted for 10 weeks. I believe the classes are longer now regarding the weeks. So, I was working full time, going to school 36 hours a week and trying to spend time with my family. It was tough and should not be taken lightly.

If you can help and are innocent, please do, people complain that cops do nothing. The cops do what they can. If the people that seen something don't step up, thats their fault. Not the police.

As officers, we have rules and procedures we must go by. Criminals have none. We are at a drastic disadvantage from the start. We need your help. Just because we look at you, that doesn't mean you are a suspect.

"The Man" is not the cop. "The Man" is not even the judicial system collective. "The Man" is you. You are responsible for your actions and the reactions they have caused. The officers are doing nothing more than their jobs and their description.

( Post is made with looking at things in general. I am not speaking for all cops, just the decent ones. I don't care about a lady that goes to prison for having an old moldy Vicodon, I personally believe there is more to that story than the press/news put out ) -Lou

[Cleveland Metal]

Thanks Lou

My academy for Cleveland was 28 weeks. Mon-Fri 8-5:30 and MANY Saturdays 9am-2pm

Ugh...

They say the next academies here may add 4-6 weeks to them...

[AK47]

I've never heard that term used (consensual) in my training at all.

This statement right here is what caused the shitstorm.

I did not mean to make it sound like his training sucked. I felt he should know this and stated he needs more training or better training. It is basic Criminal Justice stuff not something I used from wiki or pulled out of my ass. I did sound like ass stating it that way and maybe I should have come off as little more articulate.

I pointed out it is a legal term used in SCOTUS cases repeatedly.

I understand some may think I am paranoid which is fine. I admit that and get shit for it all the time.

I am in the process of applying for a FFL and SOT permits, I fill out form-6 and other ATF forms all the time. If you read about what happened to Calvary Arms you may understand my fears of LEOs and what makeing statements can get yourself into.

I simply do not make statement to any LEOs under any circumstances. I do allot of business with LEOs in my personal life but if there is a investigation of any kind my lips are sealed.

[Cleveland Metal]

They don't use that term in our training.... Seriously...

Guess us ohioayns are done be-un some backwuds good ole boys and don't know the way of yu sofisticayted citified folks... I done be soryy fro my ignoraynce...

[AK47]

Just to get the thread moving along.

In Ohio you do have to ID yourself to LEO if you are ever stopped there is the law. Someone asked this earlier and Bill answered so I figure I will post the exact law. Its refered to ass:

Stop-and-identify statutes are laws in the United States that require persons detained under certain circumstances to identify themselves to a police officer

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

California is not one of those states that has a law like that. So you can give the cops a hard time but it could get you detained longer.

To recap if you are being questioned as a possible suspect in a crime zip your lip.

Dont be a dick if you are pulled over in your car but dont consent to search. I always admit to speeding when I am pulled over and the cop usually lets me go. I dont lawyer up on the traffic infractions.

If you are a victim of crime than coporate with the LEOs in their investigation.

If you stumble into a crime scene than STFU and lawyer up.

[AK47]

They don't use that term in our training.... Seriously...

Guess us ohioayns are done be-un some backwuds good ole boys and don't know the way of yu sofisticayted citified folks... I done be soryy fro my ignoraynce...

Thats North Carolina not Ohio... Oh never mind...

[SEEGERMANY]

[Jason1212]

All I have to say is paranoid much? I have been stopped as a robbery suspect because the car I was driving matched the description of the car leaving the scene. When the cop pulled me over I had no idea why. He asked me where I was coming from to which I replied work and then where I was going to which I replied home. He went back to his car did some checking and then came back to tell me what was up and wish me a good night and sent me on my way. Now how would this have gone if I took AK's stance? Would I have come out on the other end with a conviction? No. Would I have spent some time at the station which could have been better used drinking beer which was what I was on my way to do? Yes. If you act hinky and do the things you are talking about you aren’t going to end up with a record, but you will most likely be severely inconvenienced. And when you try to fire back at the department with all of your rights and ACLU threats do you think you will really get anywhere? I make that statement not because I believe the police are always right and that they will always win, but because you would have gotten what anyone else would have gotten in the same situation.

[lerxstcat]

I think if you lawyer up at a crime scene you are almost guaranteeing yourself a trip to the station at the least. So if you think you need to do that to avoid being railroaded, fine. But if you think it will just make the cops leave you be, that could be erroneous in many if not most states.

It's different today, but when I was growing up in the 70s here in south Mississippi, I knew damn well that my rights were pretty abstract compared to the reality that I would get a beatdown from Officer Devereaux if I gave him shit, and when I went to court Judge Devereaux would uphold the legality of the injuries I acquired "resisting arrest", and then Guard Devereaux would bounce me around a bit in the jail as well.

I learned to be very polite with the police and learned that even an asshole cop usually won't put the hammer down on you if you do NOTHING to deserve it, and treat them with scrupulous respect. I know, lots of my friends would get pissed when I lived in California and told them this. But you learn the survival tactics that work where you live.

I never had any trouble with cops in California either, because I acted the same way and never withheld ID. I got away with a number of tickets and a sure pot bust because of being polite, and cooperative. I either admitted what I was doing or said I didn't realize I was speeding, rolled through the stop sign, whatever the reason for the stop was. I never accused the officer of lying because that just creates antagonism.

When you say, "I'm sorry, I didn't know that", it's not a head-on confrontation, but it's not an admission of guilt either. It does defuse the situation better than "Fuck you! You LIE!!" would. Usually the result is something like "Well, pay more attention sir, I'll let you off with a warning. Have a nice evening".

Practically speaking, it's worth it to me to schmooze in a polite noncommittal way in order to get to leave the scene without being arrested.