Americans: Never talk to the police!

[Ben...]

:think:
I've tried reading all of this stuff but it's so complicated and acronym-y that I just gave up. I think I have a headache now...

[phill_up]

it took me a while to figure out that LE meant law enforcement and LEO meant officer

[lerxstcat]

All I have to say is paranoid much? I have been stopped as a robbery suspect because the car I was driving matched the description of the car leaving the scene. When the cop pulled me over I had no idea why. He asked me where I was coming from to which I replied work and then where I was going to which I replied home. He went back to his car did some checking and then came back to tell me what was up and wish me a good night and sent me on my way. Now how would this have gone if I took AK's stance? Would I have come out on the other end with a conviction? No. Would I have spent some time at the station which could have been better used drinking beer which was what I was on my way to do? Yes. If you act hinky and do the things you are talking about you aren’t going to end up with a record, but you will most likely be severely inconvenienced. And when you try to fire back at the department with all of your rights and ACLU threats do you think you will really get anywhere? I make that statement not because I believe the police are always right and that they will always win, but because you would have gotten what anyone else would have gotten in the same situation.

I went through a similar stop, except that it was a guy who'd tossed a brick through a storefront window, and I was smoking a joint when I got stopped so my car reeked.

The cop put her spotlight on me and had me get out, back up, and lie facedown on the ground. she cuffed me and set me on the sidewalk until she got word over the radio that they'd nabbed the real vandal and the original witness had ID'ed him.

Now she had every right to stop me because it was the same car, same color, blocks away from the scene of the crime. Having probable cause, even though someone else was nabbed for that crime, she also had the telltale of rank pot smoke billowing out of my car.

So she said "You've been very cooperative, which I appreciate, so I DON'T want to search your car. But if you don't think I noticed that smell, you're crazy. I'm going to let you go, but don't smoke pot and drive anymore".

I said "No, ma'am, I won't", she uncuffed me and I went on my way, only because I was not a dick to her when she pulled me over.

[AK47]

All I have to say is paranoid much? I have been stopped as a robbery suspect because the car I was driving matched the description of the car leaving the scene. When the cop pulled me over I had no idea why. He asked me where I was coming from to which I replied work and then where I was going to which I replied home. He went back to his car did some checking and then came back to tell me what was up and wish me a good night and sent me on my way. Now how would this have gone if I took AK's stance? Would I have come out on the other end with a conviction? No. Would I have spent some time at the station which could have been better used drinking beer which was what I was on my way to do? Yes. If you act hinky and do the things you are talking about you aren’t going to end up with a record, but you will most likely be severely inconvenienced. And when you try to fire back at the department with all of your rights and ACLU threats do you think you will really get anywhere? I make that statement not because I believe the police are always right and that they will always win, but because you would have gotten what anyone else would have gotten in the same situation.

If you are in your car then you do what you did, nothing wrong with that. You cant withhold ID during a traffic stop that will get you in a world of fucked up. You will get taken to the sation and the ACLU wont help you.

If you are walking down the street minding your own business and then get questioned about a robbery then STFU. I feel its in your best intrest to STFU. What if someone was killed in the commsion of this crime, the cop is not going to tell you the details of what happened before he questions you that and you may be easy pickins.

[joelayres]

you learn the survival tactics that work where you live.

You said a mouthful with that small sentence.
With that said, there is nothing more universally helpful to ones case than showing at least a minimum of respect. If you can't manage that, at least assert your rights and STFU without being confrontational. Sort it out in court later, but I don't know of anyone who has won a case by being a jack-off to the police. If your case gets to court, don't kid yourself and think that Judges don't read the arrest reports and if they see you were a dickhead with the police it is certainly not going to endear them to you.

Anyone who wants to test the waters on this should try giving police in Arizona, Texas or Florida a hard time.
I can personally gaurantee that it will be the last time you try it.

[phill_up]

[Davey]

If you are in your car then you do what you did, nothing wrong with that. You cant withhold ID during a traffic stop that will get you in a world of fucked up. You will get taken to the sation and the ACLU wont help you.

If you are walking down the street minding your own business and then get questioned about a robbery then STFU. I feel its in your best intrest to STFU. What if someone was killed in the commsion of this crime, the cop is not going to tell you the details of what happened before he questions you that and you may be easy pickins.

wouldnt a "i dont know anything about that, i was just on the way home *orwherever* " work better? cos in my knowledge, if you keep quiet then the LEO will think you're witholding something.

[Joelski]

Fisrt of all, IMHO, FUCK the ACLU. They have a staff that is paid to take things to the extreme each time, every time. There is something to be said for allowing free thinking people to go about their duties without having ot watch over their shoulder constantly for fear of persecution from outfits such as this. To illustrate a point, go look up cases the ACLU has pressed. Most are about the rights of some dirtbag who has a criminal past and wants to keep enjoying freedom. Forceful home entry robbery is not a founding principal of the ACLU, however if you look hard enough, I am certain you will find them taking up the banner for a "wronfully detained" "citizen" in need of their services. I have to agree with Bill and John here; it's fun watching people quote the ORC and OAC; a few episodes of law and order and we're all trial attorneys!

[AK47]

wouldnt a "i dont know anything about that, i was just on the way home *orwherever* " work better? cos in my knowledge, if you keep quiet then the LEO will think you're witholding something.

Watch the video its really good the lawyer breaks down why saying anything at all can be bad.

If you are in your vehicle when stopped it is best to coporate like what you describe because in a traffic stop you are being detained and they will not set you free till you coporate or go to jail. Do not consent to a search but make statements about where you are traveling to even if the officer tells you he has probable cause to search. Make them get the paper.

If you are walking on the street and aproached for no reason. Tell the officer you have no time to talk you are on your way somewhere. If you just stay quiet you are going to be fucked with. Then you repeat "Are you detaining me or am I free to leave." He will ask for ID but keep repeating that. If he actually has enough to detain that means STFU as someone has ID'd you or he has something more to go on. At this point only statements you make are going to be used against you never for you.

[AK47]

Fisrt of all, IMHO, FUCK the ACLU. They have a staff that is paid to take things to the extreme each time, every time. There is something to be said for allowing free thinking people to go about their duties without having ot watch over their shoulder constantly for fear of persecution from outfits such as this. To illustrate a point, go look up cases the ACLU has pressed. Most are about the rights of some dirtbag who has a criminal past and wants to keep enjoying freedom. Forceful home entry robbery is not a founding principal of the ACLU, however if you look hard enough, I am certain you will find them taking up the banner for a "wronfully detained" "citizen" in need of their services. I have to agree with Bill and John here; it's fun watching people quote the ORC and OAC; a few episodes of law and order and we're all trial attorneys!

I agree Fuck the ACLU they only enforce the civil rights they chose to. The 2nd ammendmant is still a collective right according to them.

I view them as a tool and I will use them as a tool if I have to. Its free legal represantation that has political pull.

[Joelski]

Furthermore, the belief that officers go searching for fall guys to make their job easier is inane. No officer would make such a move without corrupt motivations, and that ain't the majority of LEO's.

Want to help a crook? Keep your mouth shut! NOT GETTING INVOLVED is what does damage to victims long term, not physical harm, or loss of property. People who witness harm against others and consciously chose to remain silent should at some point be on the receiving end of such a crime. It's called Karma; sew it, reap it. Nothing can change the way a citizen choses to act after they've been raised and that's a shame and a direct reflection of why the world is going to hell at breakneck speed.

[lerxstcat]

If you are walking down the street minding your own business and then get questioned about a robbery then STFU. I feel its in your best intrest to STFU. What if someone was killed in the commsion of this crime, the cop is not going to tell you the details of what happened before he questions you that and you may be easy pickins.

Consider that if you politely tell the cops you were just on your way to do whatever, they might just quickly eliminate you as a suspect and send you on your way since you cooperated, your story lined up and you didn't look or act guilty.

Now say you lawyer up instead. You ARE going in for questioning, since it's usually the guilty that lawyer up in the cops' experience. You might even get put into a lineup, and if you happen to look similar to the actual perp, you might get picked out by an eyewitness.

Now they're gonna like you for that robbery. If the guy who actually did it escaped while you were detaining the cops by acting like the punk you saw outwit the TV cops, you might conceivably go down for the crime, because the victim really thinks it's you. If the victim IDs you, the jury will probably believe it.

All because you didn't just give a straight answer to the cops when they asked you for your ID and wanted to know what you were doing there.

Not saying it's likely, but it's possible. And again, there are many states where the ACLU would not be stepping in for you. In fact, California is actually one of a handful that would. Most of the country is pro-LE and thinks that if you have nothing to hide, you should speak up.

[Joelski]

Make them get the paper.

Fine. Of course that frivolously chews up resources if you have nothing to hide. If all you want to do is give "the man" a hard time, you should be willing to consent to prosecution to the fullest extent if a real crime resulting in loss of life occurs while the officer is tied up getting a retarded search warrant. Sound fair?

[AK47]

Furthermore, the belief that officers go searching for fall guys to make their job easier is inane. No officer would make such a move without corrupt motivations, and that ain't the majority of LEO's.

Want to help a crook? Keep your mouth shut! NOT GETTING INVOLVED is what does damage to victims long term, not physical harm, or loss of property. People who witness harm against others and consciously chose to remain silent should at some point be on the receiving end of such a crime. It's called Karma; sew it, reap it. Nothing can change the way a citizen choses to act after they've been raised and that's a shame and a direct reflection of why the world is going to hell at breakneck speed.

Just like a cop runs into you he does not know if you are a good guy or bad guy. Same goes the other way you dont know if he is a good guy or bad guy.

Part of my paranoid behavior about LEOs was a personal run in I had with some crooked cops. Let me break down what they do and this story checks out.

The city I was in has a police evidence locker in the PD just like any other department. The locker is so full that the city has to contract out storage to places like Public Storage for evidence storage. Evidence has to be held for a certain amount of time and then can be disposed of. This can be years sometimes.

I cant go into details since it was by accident I stumbled upon this but a group of cops in this department were going into the contracted evidence lockers and removing drugs and replacing them with cut. They were also using stolen items from evidence and would plant them in peoples homes that threatened to say something.

As far as I am aware this city and PD is still doing this to this day and it is a small group of cops involved. I never followed up to see if anything came of any investigation. I really dont want to know.

[AK47]

Fine. Of course that frivolously chews up resources if you have nothing to hide. If all you want to do is give "the man" a hard time, you should be willing to consent to prosecution to the fullest extent if a real crime resulting in loss of life occurs while the officer is tied up getting a retarded search warrant. Sound fair?

We can remove the 4th ammendmant from the constitution also to help free up the "Man's" time. I mean that sounds reasonable we got nothing here to hide.