Mustang GT question

[roodyrocker]

Mine rockin', not quite as hard as your's tho... Lotsa little things going on with this one. Balanced/Blueprinted, flowed heads and lower and port matched, Competition Cams custom nitrous grind for flow numbers. Lotsa misc... Never dyno'ed tho... Maybe this year...

Looks nice! I see you have the DSS lower end girdle and windage tray. I went with those DSS pieces as well. Another trick to add some strength to your block is to pop those freeze plugs out and thread the holes to accept the Boss 302 style screw in freeze plugs. The screw in freeze plugs used to be about $10-12 a set from Summit, I forget the Ford Motorsport part number. Its a cheap and easy ugrade and requires no disassembly of anything you have put together so far. When do you plan to install this motor?

[Cleveland Metal]

Oh, it's in and running for a while. Fun ride to play in. I just have to go suspension now. Still have OEM stock rubber bushings and control arms all the way around.

I need to drop about 5k for what I want (HP Motorsport misc) and I don't see it happening soon. Minimally $500-600 on rear lower adjustables and FRP uppers. At least it would go straight should the front get air. Launching on 150 hp NOS it gets wild. Rear end does ill shit when it hooks hard and the car gets it's own trajectory independant of my wishes, haha... I've seen the results of that happening, so I don't run slicks. 60 ft times suffer greatly tho to say the least...

[roodyrocker]

Ah, so its up and running already. Thats great! Yeah, traction is the major issue. I have some good straight line suspension pieces on my car but really have not spent much time dialing that in. The car gets sideways by only hitting the gas pedal partially! I do have another set of rear rims for it which match whats on the car. They are drilled for rim screws and I need to hit Summit to pick up some slicks for it. Its also a stick car so launching it will be a bit more violent of a hit to the drivetrain and trickier. I'll have to play with the adjustable shocks too. Lots of suspension tuning to do.

[metalchurch79]

Boss 302 rods are the same length as 289 rods, but you probably already knew that.

Ford made some excellent factory and over the counter parts that are strong as all hell so it doesn't take much to go fast if someone's on a budget.

I bought a set of 1-5/8" Hooker Super Comp full lengths for $75.00! They were ran on the strip for only 20 passes so they are in excellent shape.
I also got a 2-1/2" Bassani Stainless X pipe that was for those headers. They run from the collectors to the rear axle. (No Cats)
I got that for $100 and it's almost new as well.

He gave me the passenger side 2-1/2" tail pipe w/ Stainless exhaust tip, but I will need the Drivers side.
I'm thinking about taking my single exhaust tail pipe off and having a shop make a 2-1/2" copy from that to use for the drivers side.
(My exhaust exits out of the driver's side now)

Since it has no Cats, what muffler would you guys recommend that I get?
I'd like a nice rumble, but I dont want it to be too loud because I dont want to attract attention from the police.

**PS I also need to keep it on the cheap.
I was looking @ Thrush mufflers, they are like $36/each from Summit, but I dont know how 'good' they are.
Like to stay away from Glasspaks if at all possible.

Thanks guys!

I got so much shit for this car for next to nothing didn't I? I'm not complaining!

Nice motor ther Cleveland Metal!
What year is that block?

[roodyrocker]

Yep, the Boss 302 rods are same length as 289 rods so by taking the factory forged standard latemodel 302 dished piston and machining .065" off the top, it now works perfectly with the longer Boss 302 rod plus the dish is gone and with the current piston being a flat top with my TFS Street Heat heads, I end up at 9.0:1 compression using Felpro head gaskets. Works out great with over 15 psi boost from the Vortech blower
For mufflers for your car, they'll be loud but I'd probably go with Flowmasters. I wouldn't bother with glasspacks or Thrush as those might choke off your other exhaust pieces you just mentioned.

[Cleveland Metal]

Flowmasters... It's the classic stang sound. Good heads, some compression and flowmasters = a very sweet sound. Love it.

I forget the year of my block, I think it's a 93 if I'm remembering correctly. Nothing special.

[metalchurch79]

Just wondering cause I see there's a roller cam in it.


Boss 302 rods are basically 289 rods with bigger rod bolts.
That's a good idea with your piston/compression height there.
Did you do the pistons by hand, or do you have a CNC?

I was planning on building a "Bogus Boss 302" a few years ago using a 1968 "J" code 302 block (higher nickel content), The early 70's Truck blocks are also viable alternatives to a Boss or Mexican block.
But of course all of those things are now hard to find and most times aftermarket blocks are cheaper to build because they're ready to rock and you wont need any machine work or worry about thin walls etc...

I was going to use a #D5TE Ford Truck crank (stronger than regular nodular iron production cranks.
289 Hi-po rods
TRW Boss 302 Replacement pistons
Aussie 351 Cleveland heads
B&A Street Boss intake
screw in freeze plugs

I still have most of those parts and I was considering finishing that motor for in this '82.

Roody, is there enough material left over after you shaved the pistons that you dont have to worry about excessive heat and the possibility of burning a hole in them?
I assume that you are using forged pistons for that.

What you did was basically made a long rod 302.
Same as what the Aussies did with their 351 Clevelands. They use a 6" rod w/ a different pin height and different pistons.

It basically allows the piston to stay @ TDC longer to make more power, correct?
It doesn't add any stroke or cubic inches if I remember correctly.

[roodyrocker]

Yes there was plenty of material in the pistons to machine off .065" and they were forged pistons. The amount removed basically amounts to the dish and the valve reliefs. There is plenty left to avoid excessive heat and the piston deck is basically the same thickness as before starting, well almost. Speaking of which, during the buildup we marked where the valve locations are with the TFS Street Heat heads and larger 2.02" valves and they were notched accordingly. When the pistons were cut ut removed the old valve reliefs which I didn't need anymore anyway. I did not machine these myself. This was done at a performance machine shop after I marked everything and what had to be done.
The Boss 302 rods are basically the same as 289 Hipo rods but if you look at the area around the head of the bolt they left a tiny bit more material in the Boss rod whereas they machined it straight on the 289 Hipo. So I have the same rod ratio as a Boss 302 (long rod 302 as you said). This does not affect displacement. You have to change bore or stroke or both to do that. The longer rod allows more dwell at TDC and less side loading on the block. There is a lot of fascinating stuff to read on changing rod ratio and what happens with longer vs. shorter rods. Pro engine builders have down to a science! Anyway, the Bogus Boss idea is great! I remember the old B&A Street Boss and Track Boss intakes for the swap. The hot ticket was to use the Aussie 2Bbl Cleveland heads. Now you can even buy the heads in aluminum.
Aftermarket blocks are much better than any factory blocks including 289 Hipo, Boss 302, and Mexican but they are expensive. Even the new aftermarket blocks require some machine work, they're not generally ready to run as is. I figured there is probably about $2500 in a block between buying it new and machine work. Anyway a Bogus Boss would be cool in your 82!

[metalchurch79]

Yeah the 289 Hi-Po block was really nothing special. The key to the Hi-Po was in the rotating assembly and top end.
Actually the piston skirts in a 289 dont extend far enough down to provide adequate support for the longer stroke of a 302, etc...

I have some old articles from the late 70's about building stroker motors using stock Ford parts.
One of which consists of using a 312 Y Block crank shaft.
Thats where I got the idea for building this Boss 302 actually.
The title of the article was called "Building a Bogus Boss"

But if I go thru all of that then I'd need custom headers, etc.. so I might as well just go with a Cleveland to begin with.
No substitute for cubic inches man!

Well a 347 Boss would be tits! Light weight and the added cubes would help with the bigger Aussie 2V ports.
Choices, choices....

I'm having a good time talking with you guys about these old Fords.
I'd love to meet up with all of you sometimes so we can talk shop in person and check out each other's cars.

I found a complete 1970 351 Windsor for $250! Well actually I know of 2 of them, but I think my brother wants the other one.
I'd have to get it ready for screw in studs and get rid of those rail rockers, but that would be a good engine to get and it would require minimal effort to bolt in.

Planning a trip to Columbus here soon and also Ford Carlisle, so I'll be on the lookout for parts.
More than likely i'll just walk around with a hard on all day because I wont have the money to buy everything I want.


Have any of you guys ran Cleveland heads on a Windsor before? (Clevor)

[metalchurch79]

Flowmasters... It's the classic stang sound. Good heads, some compression and flowmasters = a very sweet sound. Love it.

I forget the year of my block, I think it's a 93 if I'm remembering correctly. Nothing special.

That's what I'm leaning toward.
I was told to get 3 chamber mufflers because I'm not using cats and they will help muffle the sound more without choking it off.
What series of Flowmasters would you guys recommend?

[Cleveland Metal]

I'm running Flowmaster 2 chambers w/out cats... It's loud, but not insane. Very aggressive and I absolutely love them. I try to idle in quietly with them to not bother neighhbors when I visit people or come home late tho.

I'm told being behind me on the highway, it's pretty rude tho. On the street, it's friggin loud, I'm heard a couple blocks away if I'm getting on it. But I get nothing but respect and compliments. Although, some girls riding in the car have said it was too loud. The only law enforcement that ever stopped me over them, wanted to know what they were so they could get a set!

It does resonate pretty bad in the car around 2200 rpm and it drones seriously... Most any chambered muffler will do this at some rpm.

With cats, it's quite nice and not too loud.

I bought my American Thunder System for my LX years ago:

http://www.flowpowerexhaust.com/performance/index.php?D=american+thunder&Ntt=american+thunder&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Main&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=1616+4294965089+10331&Nty=1

I don't remember what muffler it came with at that time, just that it was 2 chamber. Right now, that system comes with the Super 44. I'd probably get those now if I bought again.

http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/44_super.html

I'm sure the 3 chambers are cool. I can't say I've heard them. I like my 2 chambers. But, I suppose could be to loud for some.

Friends don't let friends buy glasspacks!! haha... That means NO Dynomax too...

[zeegler]

I used to run 2 chamber Flows with an offroad H-pipe too John, with 2-5/8 JBA headers. It sounded truly awesome. Like you said, very aggressive, and a bit droney. I started the car up once with open headers, and it sounded like the apocalypse. :ROTF:

[roodyrocker]

Actually the 289 Hipo block was special. It had larger main caps like the Mexican 302 but the markings are a bit different on them. Anyway, I think I have that old Bogus Boss article you're talking about Running Cleveland heads on a Windsor block is what the original Boss 302 of 69-70 was all about. The oiling system and the main journal diameter are the advantages to using the Windsor bottom end and the big breathing heads are the advantage of the Cleveland engines. Combine the two for the best of both worlds
As far as the old original 351W heads, they still don't flow all that great plus by the time you clean them and check for cracks, replace valves, resurface, cut for teflon seals, change to screw-in studs and non-rail rockers, repalce valve guides, etc... you're better off just buying aftermarket aluminum heads.
For exhaust, I just removed the Flowmaster American Thunder system from my car. I liked that system but went with Kook's Custom Headers with X pipe and stainless race mufflers. The Kook's system is very loud but has a great intimidating rumble The 2200 rpm drone is just something late model Mustang owners live with. This tends to be worse on hatch models than coupes as its theorized that the extra space in the hatch models allows more reverberation. The All Ford swap meets in Columbus are great sources for parts. I gave up on Carlisle many years ago as eveything there is apparently dipped in gold it seems Yeah it would be great to meet up with our cars. I know Cleveland Metal is about an hour away from me as I'm in Warren, Ohio and he's in Cleveland. Don't recall how far away Altoona, PA is from here but anyway, my 93 LX Coupe is not the friendliest on gas and 4.11's in the rear end don't help matters. Sure is a fun ride though

[metalchurch79]

The main caps were larger, but the actual block wasn't different from a standard 289.

I'm 2-1/2 hours from Pittsburgh if that helps put things into perspective?


My main thing about these mufflers is that my 302 is carburated, and as you know I cant just hit the key and let it warm up by itself.
It doesn't even have a choke on the carb, so I have to nurse it along until it warms up enough for me to drive it.
I know that there are some trucks in the neighborhood that are insanely loud, so I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.

[roodyrocker]

The main caps were larger, but the actual block wasn't different from a standard 289.

I'm 2-1/2 hours from Pittsburgh if that helps put things into perspective?


My main thing about these mufflers is that my 302 is carburated, and as you know I cant just hit the key and let it warm up by itself.
It doesn't even have a choke on the carb, so I have to nurse it along until it warms up enough for me to drive it.
I know that there are some trucks in the neighborhood that are insanely loud, so I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.

Thats correct, the 289 Hipo block differs only in the main caps being thicker. Same is true of the Mexican 302 block, the caps are thicker but the rest of it is still a standard 302 block. The blocks I avoid are actually the late model blocks. The hydraulic roller cam provision in them is nice but I think they are weaker blocks than the older 302 blocks.
I say go for the Flowmasters, carbed or not they sound good and make decent power.