Anyone here know about electronic drums?

[thebigz]

I'm thinking that I may get an electronic drum set to replace my acoustic one (just too loud and bulky). I have been doing some reading on vdrums.com (Roland's site), but I'm getting a bit lost.

I'd ask over there where I should start reading to learn about it all (I have 0 knowledge of this since I've always been an acoustic snob), but I'm sure they get annoyed with all that. Since this is a guitar forum, it may be a fresh topic. Haha.

So does anyone know of a good place I could start for learning all about electronic drums?

[thebeggar]

I've see these advertised in the music catalogues, and was also interested. In theory it seems like a pretty good idea.

[Newc]

I've also been looking into these. As with anything of a MIDI nature that relies on human input (guitar synths, drums, etc) you really want to look at the reaction time of a given unit. Obviously you want the shortest time between hitting the pad and the sound being triggered.

You also want to look at the dynamics of each piece of the kit, especially the cymbals. With acoustic cymbals (and any drum piece), you get different tones from striking the middle and the edges. Cymbals also have the bell in the center along with the main body, so you want a digital cymbal to have those features AND the trigger zones have to be as close to natural positioning as possible.

With a metal cymbal, you've got a larger surface area to hit than digital cymbals. In some cases you can trigger the wrong sound by being off target by just a hair.

Less expensive units are generally known for having fewer features, particularly in their trigger zones. Some are limited in their expandability.

The biggest drawback to electronic kits I'm seeing is in the number of pieces you get for the money. Many "starter" kits have just the basics - kick, snare, hi-hat, 2 crash/ride cymbals, hi, mid, and low/floor toms - for close to $1000. You can get a decent acoustic kit with the same pieces for around half that.


Additionally, there's more and more brands popping up. It's easy to trust old names like Roland, Alesis, Yamaha, etc, but the new guys are showing lower prices and sometimes more pieces in cheaper kits than "the big boys" offer, so it becomes a question of "which Chinese junk do I buy - the famous name or the new-guy brand that also makes the famous name?"

[Newc]

Not to mention you can't find a serious review of electronic kits. You've either got the acoustic snobs that sneer at anything electronic or the high-pocket snobs who feel the only kit you should even consider looking at costs $8000 because "more expensive automatically means more better".


This actually looks like what I need:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Alesis-USBPro-DrumKit-Alesis-USB-Pro-IN-STOCK-SHIPsFAST_W0QQitemZ110342988977QQihZ001QQcategoryZ38069QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't need one with a sound module, just a PC interface, since I've already got BFD 2.

[wilkinsi]

I've always used a Yamaha PSR530 home keyboard for drum sounds since '95. I like the ability to turn the touch sensitivity off making it easier to record/mix. I also have an EMU Proteus 2000, but am looking to find a drum expansion board which is proving elusive (discontinued product).

[Jayster]

I would suggest you try some out, there are many options available. The "brain" unit is something that can cost a huge chunk too, decide what your needs are before going - I.E.- do you really need 215 sampled acoustic kits, etc..

The triggers are also something to consider - if your a snare guy(paradidling, rapid rolls, etc.)you may want a snare with multiple triggers or even laser triggers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ6-cSCwCR8

I'm thinking that I may get an electronic drum set to replace my acoustic one (just too loud and bulky).

Have you tried muffles and stuffing? It's a much cheaper alternative, there's probably not to much you can do about them being bulky - if you've already 'stream lined' your kit.

You may want to linger a bit here as well -

http://www.drumchat.com/forumdisplay.php/electronic-drums-23.html?

I hope this helps you out some, I'd thought about going electric - but decided against it. To me, sitting behind one of these kits is uninspiring, cheesy and not at all rock n roll. For some reason electronic drums conjure up images of oingo boingo, and I do not like oingo boingo.
They're not for everyone(although Rick Allen likes them quite a bit), if I were you I'd go and try out as many different kits as I could. The roland vdrums are pretty nice, certainly not the cheapest though.

[markD]

i have been using the roland TD-10 Vdrums for the last year. reaction time and sounds are awesome for the drums. cymbals suck, so i use real cymbals mic'd. i prefer the Vdrums over my old set up, which was a tama star classic performer kit with mesh heads and ddrum triggers with real cymbals. the vdrums take up less space when being stored, though they take up MORE space when set up.

the TD-10 brain is pretty killer, though i still use my DM-5 or DM-pro depending on what i am looking to do.

the TD-10 kit was expensive though. i paid $1700 used a year ago. roland has the TD-12 out now that is MUCH better but it's also MEGA expensive.

[hippietim]

I had an el cheapo electronic kit at one time. It was a piece of shit and total waste of money.

Now I have a TD-12 kit. The pads are great - cymbals and hi-hats are OK.

A buddy of mine who is an actual drummer has the TD-20 brain with really nice Hart Dynamics pads - he uses real brass though.

All I can tell you is that with electronic drums more than just about anything else music gear related, it's not worth buying the cheap stuff. The cheap electronic drums are just terribly made, have bad crosstalk problems rendering them nearly useless, have lame cheesy sounds, etc. It's not at all like the guitar stuff where you can get a gig worthy rig for $500-600.

So my advice is either save up and get a nice kit or don't waste your money. If you are just trying to do something for like recording drum parts via MIDI for demos then look at a Roland SPD-S or SPD-20.

[rjohnstone]

Newc obviously you're not a professional drummer.
My father has been playing for his entire life practically and earns a living playing.
He's played and owns several midi kits and has been through damn near all of them.
The quality of the heads, the triggers and zone mapping as well as having great sampling is key to a quality electronic drum kit.
If you're getting paid to play, the Alesis kit you mention is NOT the way to go.
The thing is an expensive toy.

The Roland V series pads are some of the best on the market when it comes to natural feel and stick response. A rubber pad cannot simulate this.
As Tim noted, Hart makes great kits and pads and Kat makes some of the best multi pads out there. They are not cheap by any means, but you do get what you pay for.
You are not going to get the subtle nuance of a real kit from a $700 toy.

If you're a gigging musician and you want to go with an electronic kit, save your money and play as many as you can before you drop a dime on any of them.

Couple if sites for you to check out.

http://www.hartdynamics.com/home/index.html

http://www.retpercussion.us/home/index.html

https://www.pintechworld.com/shop/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=17

[thebigz]

Thanks for all the responses. In my reading last night I started leaning toward the TD 12. I have the money to get a set, unfortunately it pushes the USA Jackson out of the picture for awhile.

I'm planning on mostly using them at home for recording/jamming. I'm not in a gigging band now, but I may pick it up again for fun later on. I'm thinking I could possibly sell my acoustic kit for maybe 1k then use the rest to finance some vdrums.

I'll start looking around on those sites and I'm heading to GC to check some stuff out in person today.

[lerxstcat]

i have been using the roland TD-10 Vdrums for the last year. reaction time and sounds are awesome for the drums. cymbals suck, so i use real cymbals mic'd. i prefer the Vdrums over my old set up, which was a tama star classic performer kit with mesh heads and ddrum triggers with real cymbals. the vdrums take up less space when being stored, though they take up MORE space when set up.

the TD-10 brain is pretty killer, though i still use my DM-5 or DM-pro depending on what i am looking to do.

the TD-10 kit was expensive though. i paid $1700 used a year ago. roland has the TD-12 out now that is MUCH better but it's also MEGA expensive.

My good friend has the TD-20 kit and I think the cymbals sound okay. The reason I think it's worth going with them is that we jam in his den through a Peavey 16-channel mixer into a CS800 and a pair of 15" Neos.

I run my little rack right into the board and so does the bass player. That goes right into his computer for direct recording of our jams. It makes recording very easy and also means we can jam at conversational volume while his gf watches TV in the living room. Anybody could do the same in their apartment. Not as much fun as playing with full amplification but it makes it so easy to play, and you only need 2 channels into the board for both PA and recording.

We have also considered the fact that going out to play clubs that way, we could offer club owners full control of volume, even playing hard rock, because we don't have to play to the minimum volume of an acoustic drumset. Imagine your customers not having to shout in the waitresses' ears to get their drink orders right.

Monitor issues could be somewhat eliminated because the mix coming out of our mains would be the same. No walking in front of the other guy's amp and not being able to hear yourself. You could eliminate separate main and monitor mixes as long as everybody is audible in the mix. The drummer would mix it and we'd just have side fills, because there wouldn't be the cacophony of clashing instruments onstage.

Just give the club soundman 2 main outs and let him set the level to please himself or the club owner/manager. That means a shitty soundman can't even fuck up your sound, and you KNOW what you sound like out front because it's the same sound you hear onstage.

Setup would be so quick and simple - vocal mics would be the only mics causing variables from one room to the next. Soundcheck would also be easier. It's a different approach and we haven't really tried it outside of the room, and you have to be willing to live with a certain compromise in sound quality. But it's surprising how good it can actually sound.

Your sound will be basically the same in any room, you just upsize or downsize the number of amps and speakers powering the PA according to the room. Your monitors and mains are the same mix, which eliminates so many problems. Then it simply comes down to your performance making it all sound good - which is easier because everybody can hear the same thing anywhere on the stage or in the crowd.

That's the idea - whether it will work in reality remains to be seen, and that's a big "if".

[markD]

yeah. i use my vdrums at church with the electric cymbals, but i record with real ones. church has the whole silent stage thing. we use in-ear monitors and everything is plugged direct with line 6 stuff or just acoustic guitars. it gives the sound guy total control.

for recording, i am a purist. i have 14 crash cymbals, ranging in sizes from 10" to 22", different thicknesses, i have 3 different sts of hi hats, 4 different ride cymbals. when i am doing production work for myself or a client, i am usually NOT pleased with the decay of the electric cymbal. in my opinion, the cymbal is the MOST complex musical instrument in the world. there are WAY too many variables to try to capture for an accurate "sampled" cymbal. roland has gotten really close with the TD-20, but i am still not impressed in a recording environment.

PS - i even still mic an acoustic drum kit too, depending on the type of music and the sound needed....

[hippietim]

As Tim noted, Hart makes great kits and pads and Kat makes some of the best multi pads out there. They are not cheap by any means, but you do get what you pay for.

To be clear, Hart makes some of the biggest pieces of shit out there too. My first electronic kit was a $500 Hart kit and I bought a Roland TD-5 brain. The TD-5 was pretty nice but those cheap Hart pads were awful.

This is a physical hardware issue - it is not really much of an electronics problem. Pretty much all of them use similar piezo transducers - even the best Roland/Hart/Pintech pads use transducers that probably cost a buck. The money and quality is in the rims, heads, mounting brackets, etc.

Cheap kits have terrible crosstalk problems or are completely unresponsive.

When you check out a kit, imagine you are hitting the crap out of it. Now imagine what's left of the kit after your session.

[mattsmusiccenter]

I'm a Roland Drums dealer if anyone is looking for one of these kits. I guarantee you won't find better pricing anywhere!

Matt

Matt's Music Center
35 Pleasant St
Weymouth MA 02190 USA
781-335-0700
www.mattsmusic.com
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[hippietim]

Indeed! Matt hooked me up with my TD-12 kit.