Need suggestions on a Recording PA system for my home studio.

[AK47]

A little background first.

I am turning part of my garage into a rehersal/recording space.

I already have a Tama Double bass drumkit with everything.

I have a full bass rig with Ampeg 8x10 cab and Ampeg SVTII Pro power amp.

I have enough 4x12s and amps for a rythm and lead guitar setup.

This is what I need help with and suggestions since I am not 100% sure on what I need or want.

First things first I want mics and stands for vocals and PA monitors or speakers.

Next is I want to mic the drums and cabs as well.

I figure I need a good mixing board that can have everything plugged in at once.

My purpose is when I have my full band rehersing we can also be recording. That way we can review our sessions since we just improvise and jam a bunch till it turns into a song but we are having issues remembering what we played or what my drummer thought was a awesome riff and I cant remember what he is talking about.

I have a computer with Protools that I can use. So I figure I need a huge mixing board and mics as well as stands and PA monitors or speakers.

There are really great deals on PA systems that are selling used all the time. I mean I have seen systems that cost 20grand go for 3grand.

I just dont know how to put it all together and what exactley I want to buy.

I do want pro level stuff, I dont want something I will have to upgrade later. I just want to do it once and thats it.

[Strangletooth]

Sent you a PM, I've also got a shitload of cables as well. Probably close to 100# of misc cables, a lot of mic cables tho.

Let me know...

[Strangletooth]

Are you running any mic pre's now with ProTools? What PT system are you running? I had a Digi 002 that was awesome, lots of plug ins as well, I may have a disk loaded with plugs somewhere, probably 3 or 4k in plugins, let me see what I've got, but whatever I do have is going to be a few years old, but very cool none the less and absolutely perfect for what you're doing. I've also got an iLok key (I think that's what it was called, it was like a thumbdrive before there were such things for authorizations on the plugs) I had a Focusrite OctoPre Mic pre that was awesome, not real expensive, but not cheap by any means, but that sounds like the perfect piece to tie everything together, I sent you a PM on some other stuff as well, give me a call and I'll help you out. I did it up right back in the day and it was awesome to say the least. I would also recommend getting a Mac for the PT system, it was far better than a pc in that regard. I bought 2 of them just for recording, a G4 and 5, (just upgraded to a G5 when they came out, but the G4 is perfect for what you're doing) there's a lot to be said about running PT on a Mac.

You're jumping into a world that's awesome man, I never had more fun with all this shit than I did recording at home.

Let me know bro...

[AK47]

I have PT 6.7 and a copy of 7.4 with tons of plug ins for Windows. I never installed them so I dont know the specifics. Is there any hardware I should buy for the PT to work for what I want. I see they have a few things you can get including a rackmount unit.

I will eventually get a Mac but not anytime in the near future.

[AK47]

This system is probably overkill but I keep seeing these crazy deals on complete systems like this because of the bad economy.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/1032223549.html

I need a break down of what I actually need so I am not being redundant. For example I know I would never need wireless mics like the above system includes.

I am hoping to score everything I need in one package if possible.

[Strangletooth]

A mic-pre is all I would suggest, you can get some other plug/effects via rack, but not necessary IMO. You'll be fine with the ProTools and a Mic pre. I can't say enough about the OctoPre. it's 8 channels, but you can get 16 out of of it iirc. It all depends how many channels you need, but for a 4 piece band and mic'n each drum, that rig was perfect. We even had 1 or 2 area mics, all of the amps were direct into the board, you can do this or mic it, I always mic'd it and used a raw mix basically. We had a couple of spare channels iirc as well.

There's a lot of tricks, and I never really cracked the surface of the possibilities, but knew enough to get soem pretty decent mixes. After I finally got it all tweaked, we never played a note without the tape rolling. We used to write a lot of stuff off the cuff and the only thing that saved me/us was the recording, it was like learning a new song after writing/playing it, make sense? lol

I'll make you a deal on everything I have, including a G4 if you want... You know what i'm looking for.

I'll be glad to help where possible, just let me know.

[Strangletooth]

This system is probably overkill but I keep seeing these crazy deals on complete systems like this because of the bad economy.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/1032223549.html

I need a break down of what I actually need so I am not being redundant. For example I know I would never need wireless mics like the above system includes.

I am hoping to score everything I need in one package if possible.

That looks more like a backline production setup than anything imo. Not going to do much in the way of recording.

What I would suggest is the following:

ProTools Hardware `(Digi 001/002 or comparable)
Mic Pre
A board for live sound, probably just a handful of channels, don't need anything spectacular here
1200 or more watts power amp, crown is good and a fair price
Pair of Loud speakers Decent pair
Depending on space and design, a floor monitor or two for vocals or a decent set of headphones
Lots of cables
Handful of plugins for protools
Dozen mics or so, I would stay away from wireless for this application, backline, live gig, sure, but not for recording.
Drum kit mics and clips and a kick mic

That's about it. maybe some Aurolex stuff for acoustics, time/tone/sound will determine that.

[Spivonious]

In the meantime, why not just set up one microphone going into the computer? It would at least let you remember what you were playing.

[Rsmacker]

Fucking hell, I'd spend my money buying the neighbours out, they're gonna love it when you lot start crankin' it!

[Newc]

A good live board can be used as a good recording board, as long as you've got a spare set of Tape outs.

However, if you're planning to advance to multitracking, you might want a separate board for recording (quieter mic preamps, etc), but it really all depends on the quality of recordings you're going for.

For beginning recording, a live board with Tape outs into the PC will do. Obviously if you can score a pro-level studio setup cheap, go for it, but the "studio quiet" boards will not translate live sound very well, just as a "live board" will not do CD-quiet recording.

The biggest factor to consider is the hassle involved in getting a good sound to tape.

The second-biggest factor to consider is that not everyone has the emotional or mental stability for multitracking, which is quite tedious and can become very redundant.

[Strangletooth]

With the mics we used, we had no problem with isolating various instruments, cabs, etc, and separating channels, so you don't have to do the multi-track thing, and you can always go that route as well after the fact or whatever. With the drums there was still some bleeding, very small, but you could mix it out and definitely get a good mix with my old Digi/ProTools rig. I don't care if it was older stuff or not (in today's world), I wouldn't hesitate building a new one the same as the old if I were in the market.

I bought everything new and prolly spent $3-4k on the entire rig. So it depends on your budget, but nothing beats a DigiDesign/ProTools rig for some entry-mid level recording. It's stupid easy to learn and it does a great job with the final mix. You can always get a good raw mix and send it out to have mixed/produced, and with ProTools, "sending it out" means throwing it on an FTP somewhere, no tapes to be had.

Just doing a quick search on eBay, it looks like you can get a complete Digidesign 001 w/PT8 and a Focusrite OctoPre for $8-900, add about a grand to that for mics, power amp, loudspeakers and you're down the road, a little more with some good studio speakers for mixing/producing.

I keep talking about the Octopre, and I'm sure there are a lot more but I've used this one and it's perfect for what it sounds like you want to do.

[AK47]

A good live board can be used as a good recording board, as long as you've got a spare set of Tape outs.

However, if you're planning to advance to multitracking, you might want a separate board for recording (quieter mic preamps, etc), but it really all depends on the quality of recordings you're going for.

For beginning recording, a live board with Tape outs into the PC will do. Obviously if you can score a pro-level studio setup cheap, go for it, but the "studio quiet" boards will not translate live sound very well, just as a "live board" will not do CD-quiet recording.

The biggest factor to consider is the hassle involved in getting a good sound to tape.

The second-biggest factor to consider is that not everyone has the emotional or mental stability for multitracking, which is quite tedious and can become very redundant.

I will go with Newc and O'Reilly on this:

"Fuck it! I will do it live!"

What is a good live board to get. That is the way the stuff will be recorded mostly. I mean we will take everything to a real studio if it gets That Good.

So I figure I need:

Live Mixing board but what?

Stage monitors.

Mic stands and mics for drums cabs and vocals but how many do I need?

I also needs Speakers and a amp for the PA/vocals.

A snake to plug everything into and then go to the mixing board.

This way if we ever do a gig we have our own PA system to use.

I do not understand how tape outs work always knew people that did this but I never got into it. Is it essentially taking the output from the mixing board and hitting record on a tape recorder or Audigy on a PC for example?

I got someone I know who can take my stuff into the studio and do the real pro level multitracking and mixing. His position is if he thinks it sucks he wont help me / LOL

I am just going for good live recording quality right now. You know when you hear those bootlegs of your favorite bands that were recorded off the venue sound board. I am looking to get that quality.

[ozzuk1]

One thing you will need to consider is that the pc or recording part has enough inputs, you can get 8 and 16 channel pres to plug the mic's or line ins into...

If your going live you may want to get a small older analoge 8 track recorder then transfer the data to digital to mix in protools or whatever...

I think you are going to get a hoard of problems trying to record onto protools and have the pa setup if you have little or no experience of recording...

Snake is a good idea aswell as the crown amp, desk, and decent set of speakers, JBL make some good 15's I'd take the wooden versions over the plastic ones they make imo they sound better...

You may want to add another poweramp and subs for bottom end if you are going to be micing or di'ing the bass and micing the drums...

I'll have to find out the exact JBL's that I used when I was doing live sound, your going to want monitors you could live with two one for drummer and one for everyone else, Having your own pa is a great idea, and when you get used to the setup you wont need to do much at all with it, just find a decent engineer to watch the levels at gig's...

I'd personally concentrate on getting the pa part sorted first then add the protools or whatever later, I think adding an 8 track from the desk then sticking the tracks onto the pc would be a lot simpler and hassle free than getting a few firewire or pc connected interfaces and pre's...

Allen and heath make excellent desks, I do believe they makea 16 channel live desk which would be plenty for drums 3-5 mics bass vox 1-3 mics and guitars 2-4 mics

Good luck, and dont be afraid to take things slow and work out exactly what will suit you the most...

[AK47]

One thing you will need to consider is that the pc or recording part has enough inputs, you can get 8 and 16 channel pres to plug the mic's or line ins into...

If your going live you may want to get a small older analoge 8 track recorder then transfer the data to digital to mix in protools or whatever...

I think you are going to get a hoard of problems trying to record onto protools and have the pa setup if you have little or no experience of recording...

Snake is a good idea aswell as the crown amp, desk, and decent set of speakers, JBL make some good 15's I'd take the wooden versions over the plastic ones they make imo they sound better...

You may want to add another poweramp and subs for bottom end if you are going to be micing or di'ing the bass and micing the drums...

I'll have to find out the exact JBL's that I used when I was doing live sound, your going to want monitors you could live with two one for drummer and one for everyone else, Having your own pa is a great idea, and when you get used to the setup you wont need to do much at all with it, just find a decent engineer to watch the levels at gig's...

I'd personally concentrate on getting the pa part sorted first then add the protools or whatever later, I think adding an 8 track from the desk then sticking the tracks onto the pc would be a lot simpler and hassle free than getting a few firewire or pc connected interfaces and pre's...

Allen and heath make excellent desks, I do believe they makea 16 channel live desk which would be plenty for drums 3-5 mics bass vox 1-3 mics and guitars 2-4 mics

Good luck, and dont be afraid to take things slow and work out exactly what will suit you the most...

Thanks for those suggestions.

I have a question with a live recording setup like this.

Its mostly me and my drummer jamming and we have different people sit in on bass but I pretty much write the bass lines myself.

Can me and the drummer record the guitar and drums live. Then I replay the recording and plug my bass in and record the bass line while our two tracks play back or would that be difficult to do with a setup like this?

[Strangletooth]

One thing you will need to consider is that the pc or recording part has enough inputs, you can get 8 and 16 channel pres to plug the mic's or line ins into...

If your going live you may want to get a small older analoge 8 track recorder then transfer the data to digital to mix in protools or whatever...

I think you are going to get a hoard of problems trying to record onto protools and have the pa setup if you have little or no experience of recording...

Snake is a good idea aswell as the crown amp, desk, and decent set of speakers, JBL make some good 15's I'd take the wooden versions over the plastic ones they make imo they sound better...

You may want to add another poweramp and subs for bottom end if you are going to be micing or di'ing the bass and micing the drums...

I'll have to find out the exact JBL's that I used when I was doing live sound, your going to want monitors you could live with two one for drummer and one for everyone else, Having your own pa is a great idea, and when you get used to the setup you wont need to do much at all with it, just find a decent engineer to watch the levels at gig's...

I'd personally concentrate on getting the pa part sorted first then add the protools or whatever later, I think adding an 8 track from the desk then sticking the tracks onto the pc would be a lot simpler and hassle free than getting a few firewire or pc connected interfaces and pre's...

Allen and heath make excellent desks, I do believe they makea 16 channel live desk which would be plenty for drums 3-5 mics bass vox 1-3 mics and guitars 2-4 mics

Good luck, and dont be afraid to take things slow and work out exactly what will suit you the most...

The DigiDesign 001 and a Mic pre (FocusRite OctoPre) is seamless integration, once setup it's a plug and play system and the setup is a piece of cake. It will do everything you want now and in the future. You can do what you want, (play the bass after the fact, etc) and a lot more. get a cheap board, decent power amp, handlful of mics and some speakers and you're done.

Trust me on this, I've spent a year trying to do what you want to do, and I finally got it with this setup. You will not be sorry, I promise you. I had the same thoughts as you do now 5-6yrs ago and I only wish I had someone telling me what to do, that went through it in the beginning like I'm trying to "force" on you.

Either way, best of luck. I can't offer any help with a live rig like newc or anyone else has suggested, but I will say this, with that live rig proposal, you'll only have 2 tracks coming into protools and you'll be extremely limited with any mix after the fact. it will be a bootleg and nothing more, you can't have it both ways with that setup.