Big News Fender Loses Trademark Case

[Newc]

However, there are two points I disagree on:

First, that "they cannot identify source", and second, that "these designs belong to everyone".

They "belong" to the estate of Leo Fender, who is "the source". If anyone is to be handed a monopoly on them, it should be them and the original designers he worked with.

BUT, they did have ample opportunity to lock it down 50 years ago when they saw everyone and their mother copying the designs, so yes, they traded exclusivity for immortality.

[joelayres]

They "belong" to the estate of Leo Fender, who is "the source". If anyone is to be handed a monopoly on them, it should be them and the original designers he worked with.

BUT, they did have ample opportunity to lock it down 50 years ago when they saw everyone and their mother copying the designs, so yes, they traded exclusivity for immortality.

You are exactly right on both counts.

[shreddermon]

So when the "vs Gibson" suit is settled next week, that should put an end to the monopoly on the Les Paul, SG, Flying V, and Explorer shapes, right?

There is no monopoly on those shapes. That suit (PRS vs. Gibson) was decided a few years ago. Gibson lost on all counts, and they tried to appeal to the US Supreme Court. The SC refused to hear the case, and simply upheld the lower court's decision.

[Rupe]

You are exactly right on both counts.

Wrong. Leo sold his company and his designs went with it...they don't "belong" to his estate in any way, shape, or form. If Fender would have done something back in the day,even later on under CBS, they most likely could have stopped all of the rip-offs from ever gaining momentum.

As for other body style like the Explorer and V, I would imagine that they wouldn't be considered "generic" and therefore easier to protect.

[John C]

I hate to resurect a dead thread but I missed it the first time around. A couple of things to point out:

1. Leo Fender did patent the Strat, Tele, and other shapes. Patents have an expiration date and they expired back in the 1960s.

2. Trademarks don't expire like patents; that is why having a trademark is a very powerful business tool.

3. Fender (the company) never sought to trademark the body shapes; they did trademark the headstock shapes, names, etc. during the CBS era. The ruling back then was that the headstock was the builder's "signature". That is why Charvel got the "cease and desist" letter and had to stop building Stratheads and begin building pointies circa 1982/83.

4. Gibson filed for trademarks and trade dress on their key instruments in the 1980s after Henry J. bought the company. No one disputed the trademark application as this group did for Fender. Also, the Gibson trademark applications were very specific - down to knob placement, switch placement, curve of the lower cutway, etc. on the Les Paul.

5. That specificity of the trademarked materials and "trade dress" is why PRS won their case vs. Gibson on appeal - only someone very unfamiliar with guitars would confuse a PRS Singlecut with a Les Paul - the shapes, size, headstock, even the knob placement are different.

6. Fender went the other way and was trying to trademark 2-dimensional drawings of the shape without any real specificity on the trade dress (knob placement, etc.).

7. Fender not only didn't enforce any trademarks on the body shapes, they even confirmed with some people that they could use the shapes. John Suhr (one of the principles in the lawsuit) had verbal okay to use the traditional Strat and Tele shapes from Fender. Those who gave him verbal confirmation are no longer with FMIC/Fender. It was reported on The Gear Page that another party to the suit actually had written confirmation from Fender that he could use the body shapes.

I guess my personal take is that Fender chose to not attempt to enforce the trademarks and let the shapes fall into public domain; their attempt was simply too late. That is a big difference in the PRS vs. Gibson suit which basically showed that PRS created a similar but different enough instrument to co-exist with the Les Paul.