Keep buying crap made in China suckers

[Endrik]

Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Franco Spain, Today's Burma, Iraq etc. are prime examples of social conservatism. Prime example of Life Style Police... dictating how you should live, what to like etc. and what not to do.. who you are suppose to hate etc.

[AK47]

thanks captain obvious
I believe it's thought even in the 4th grade that Nazi's were national-socialists and social conservatives

anyway... Aussies have social health care.... correct me if I'm wrong but there's very few places in the world which have less government control than Australia... maybe Hong Kong but other than that...

How were they social conservatives? They were pro Euthanasia against private firearm ownership, Himmler said you want to shoot guns join the SA or the SS.

State sponsored birth control, abortion were all part of the Nazi bag of tricks that is not socially conservative to me.

[AK47]

I say a corporation would be much worse. They focus on money even more so than the government. I think the issue here is that you are thinking of this issue in relation to your government while we are in relation to ours which are different so we are almost arguing separate issues. Ours are more based on a European/British style (Both Canada and Australia being British Commonwealth Nations) while yours is your own. That's part of why you guys separated from England, isn't it? You wanted your own country ran your way. It's impossible to judge this argument without seeing from the other side.

Fun Fact: When translated to English the name that Nazi comes from translates to National Socialist German Workers Party. I've known that for quite a while being that I've always found history fascinating.

I view socialist programs as strongly anti-American so I tell people if thats what they want go to Canada or Cuba or wherever they have socialized medicine this is not going to work in America like it does in other countries. Its going to be a cluster fuck of epic proportions.

Regarding your fun fact when I was a kid I went to visit family in the old country both in Yugoslavia and Croatia. Half the family was pro-Nazi during WWII and the other half was Partisan or anti-Nazi. One of my Aunt's and great Aunt's had all this old Nazi propganda in storage because after the second World War the rest of the family made her take it all down. Most of it was anti-communist propaganda but I remeber this huge portrait of Hitler that supposedly she had in the front room that pissed the rest of the family off so she finally took it down.

[Endrik]

thanks captain obvious
I believe it's thought even in the 4th grade that Nazi's were national-socialists and social conservatives

anyway... Aussies have social health care.... correct me if I'm wrong but there's very few places in the world which have less government control than Australia... maybe Hong Kong but other than that...

[AK47]

Right now in health care the power of regulation is largely left up to corporations. These corporations have a conflict of interest where my health is concerned - they make less profits if they actually provide the services that I am paying for. We are currently seeing how this is playing out - the insurance companies deny claims, cancel policies based upon pre-existing conditions, and sometimes just stall to get you to pay. They are responsible for many people with health insurance dying due to not receiving doctor recommended care in time. I agree with you, the problem is who the regulation is left up to. It should not be left up to corporations, they have already shown themselves to be unworthy of our trust.

I am unaware of any legislation that gives politicians the power to diagnose people as mentally ill.

I am unsure of what you are getting at here. Are you saying that the government shouldn't have regulatory powers, or that it shouldn't enforce them? Both of these possibilities seem like bad ideas to me.

The political ideology of the Nazis is a very complicated subject. Yes, the Nazi party had "socialist" in the name. This hardly means that seniors will start being marched to death camps because we are instituting socialized healthcare. Alarmism like this doesn't do your argument any good.

This is a democracy, government is regulated by the people. Its sad that you don't realize this. Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with our system of government, its undying featly to corporations is certainly one of the worst.

What I mean by the BATFE and regulatory power as in they interpert the laws they enforce which is a very dangerous thing. They collect evidence conduct there own investigation for which there is no federal guideline for then present them in court as undisputed fact.

Do you realize by having a socialized system you are left up to .gov maintaning control of your medical records and they decide what doctors you see. Lets say DHS thinks you are a "Right wing extremist" and you get on the list. You then go to the doctor to get treated for skin rash. They see you are on a "list" refer you to a psychologist. Then give you a diaganosis of DOP or delusions of Parasitosis and mentally incompetant. This was a common practice by other socialist or communist countries in the past.

Nothing complicated about Nazi ideology. They were Socialist that beleived in Eugenics. Where do you think Volkswagen came from? What does the name mean? They pushed issues like gun registration, universal healthcare and the people's car. They were by no means consevative or right wing even though the popular belief today in America is they were. They were a bunch of angry workers mad at the greedy corporations oh sorry I mean jews and wanted all the things you guys in this thread want.

[marcus]

Its the power of regulation that is left up to who? That is where the problem lies.

Right now in health care the power of regulation is largely left up to corporations. These corporations have a conflict of interest where my health is concerned - they make less profits if they actually provide the services that I am paying for. We are currently seeing how this is playing out - the insurance companies deny claims, cancel policies based upon pre-existing conditions, and sometimes just stall to get you to pay. They are responsible for many people with health insurance dying due to not receiving doctor recommended care in time. I agree with you, the problem is who the regulation is left up to. It should not be left up to corporations, they have already shown themselves to be unworthy of our trust.

If you dont agree with Obama you can be deemed mentaly ill or another Bush gets into office and you dont agree with him, then bam you are deemed mentally ill.

I am unaware of any legislation that gives politicians the power to diagnose people as mentally ill.

We gave a certain branch of the government regulatory powers to interpert laws they enforce, The BATFE and how did that turn out? Ruby ridge and Waco are examples.

I am unsure of what you are getting at here. Are you saying that the government shouldn't have regulatory powers, or that it shouldn't enforce them? Both of these possibilities seem like bad ideas to me.

Nazi were Socialists I dont understand why people freak out when this is pointed out.

They usually rebut with "but they were Facists" but then you can be right or left of center and be deemed as such.

The political ideology of the Nazis is a very complicated subject. Yes, the Nazi party had "socialist" in the name. This hardly means that seniors will start being marched to death camps because we are instituting socialized healthcare. Alarmism like this doesn't do your argument any good.

I really am sad to see that most of you think the .gov will somehow regulate itself.

This is a democracy, government is regulated by the people. Its sad that you don't realize this. Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with our system of government, its undying featly to corporations is certainly one of the worst.

[nsubulysses]

jesus christ I envy Europeans HUGELY

America is kind of primitive....

Well I guess not just Europeans but people from Canada, Australia, etc, etc.

[Ben...]

I really am sad to see that most of you think the .gov will somehow regulate itself.

I say a corporation would be much worse. They focus on money even more so than the government. I think the issue here is that you are thinking of this issue in relation to your government while we are in relation to ours which are different so we are almost arguing separate issues. Ours are more based on a European/British style (Both Canada and Australia being British Commonwealth Nations) while yours is your own. That's part of why you guys separated from England, isn't it? You wanted your own country ran your way. It's impossible to judge this argument without seeing from the other side.

Fun Fact: When translated to English the name that Nazi comes from translates to National Socialist German Workers Party. I've known that for quite a while being that I've always found history fascinating.

[442w30]

Unions have there place. The fact is not all companys would treat their employees fairly if in fact they where not unionized. There are ups and downs with dealing with the union though, but just like any place it comes down to the people you employ. I deal with Teamsters that do take pride in their job, where others are the lazy POS you hear about.

The bitch is getting rid of the POS. Attendance is the death to most POS Teamsters.
And that is even getting harder to do because of FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) and the FCA (Family Care Act). The abuse of these programs are insane. The FCA was introduced into law because to the increase of single mothers that have to stay home to take care of their kid if it gets sick. The way the law was put in place anyone can take a day off to take care of their kid and not be accounted for their attendance. Want a day off? Kid is sick, not coming in.... Today i had this guy call at 6:15 (Shift starts at 6:30) and said he will not make it in and using his FMLA. He said his wifes is at the hospital because her sister is going in labor, so he has to stay with the his kid!

i deal with union contracts and members every day at work because im in management. Like i said, some good, some bad in having unions.

Disclaimer: i was a Local 174 Teamster for 16 years. Management now for 10 years. I am aware of both sides of the coin.

I agree, I think?!?

I am in a 100% anti-union tech job, and management is beyond a joke. Actually, the whole idea of a career is a joke. It's an "every man for himself" "take what you can get" mentality.
Publically traded, non-union companies are as cowboy as it gets. The state mandated labor regs are long term and every decision is "by the quarter". It's absolutely crazy to think long term, but quite nice if you can job surf and ride the sweet waves created in this environment.

I feel it may be totally different than what you are experiencing, FMLA means no pay for us folks from what I understand and I haven't taken over 10 days vacation/leave a year since 1996 even though I am supposedly entitled to 4 week vacation, 2 weeks sick per year.

[AK47]

Letting the mentally ill arm themselves strikes me as dangerous.

This is a true, but fairly obvious statement.

Where do you get this? Seniors already have socialized health care. They will be affected the least by the proposed health care reforms.

Its the power of regulation that is left up to who? That is where the problem lies.

If you dont agree with Obama you can be deemed mentaly ill or another Bush gets into office and you dont agree with him, then bam you are deemed mentally ill.

We gave a certain branch of the government regulatory powers to interpert laws they enforce, The BATFE and how did that turn out? Ruby ridge and Waco are examples.

Nazi were Socialists I dont understand why people freak out when this is pointed out.

They usually rebut with "but they were Facists" but then you can be right or left of center and be deemed as such.

I really am sad to see that most of you think the .gov will somehow regulate itself.

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

Unions have there place. The fact is not all companys would treat their employees fairly if in fact they where not unionized. There are ups and downs with dealing with the union though, but just like any place it comes down to the people you employ. I deal with Teamsters that do take pride in their job, where others are the lazy POS you hear about.

The bitch is getting rid of the POS. Attendance is the death to most POS Teamsters.
And that is even getting harder to do because of FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) and the FCA (Family Care Act). The abuse of these programs are insane. The FCA was introduced into law because to the increase of single mothers that have to stay home to take care of their kid if it gets sick. The way the law was put in place anyone can take a day off to take care of their kid and not be accounted for their attendance. Want a day off? Kid is sick, not coming in.... Today i had this guy call at 6:15 (Shift starts at 6:30) and said he will not make it in and using his FMLA. He said his wifes is at the hospital because her sister is going in labor, so he has to stay with the his kid!

i deal with union contracts and members every day at work because im in management. Like i said, some good, some bad in having unions.

Disclaimer: i was a Local 174 Teamster for 16 years. Management now for 10 years. I am aware of both sides of the coin.

[Ben...]

I agree.

[marcus]

You have not heard about veterans losing their right to bear arms because of PTSD. In California they are already cross refrencing gun registration with mental health records. Leaving it up to regulatory agencies to decide who can have what rights. This is very dangerous.

Letting the mentally ill arm themselves strikes me as dangerous.

Second Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.”

This is a true, but fairly obvious statement.

Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Where do you get this? Seniors already have socialized health care. They will be affected the least by the proposed health care reforms.

What does this ultimatley leads to Eugenics.

Remember the Nazi were Socialists.

[Joe_Steeler]

Been telling you guys, it doesn't matter.

According to Nostradamus all this shit will not matter after 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[442w30]

when? How long does a socialised healthcare system have to be in place before we get what's coming to us? As I said before, we've had this system in place for decades & it is working in this country. I'm not all excited about some new initiative the govt has just implemented - the system is fully tested & up-and-running.

Your warnings that we're all gonna get it for adopting this type of health system makes it seem that you're under the impression that everyone here who advocates socialised healthcare has JUST got it or wants it to replace the system we have. We're (GOR, Ben, bibz, Endrik, etc) all living with it and have for many years. It's not a new thing & it does work.

It's funny that there are two separate discussions going on in this thread that seemingly contradict each other:

• one stating that unions are now redundant because there are sufficient govt controls to ensure that the worker will now not get fucked over by the big corporations. It's the people mandated protective body that is corrupt and ruining the system.
• the other states that the corporations should be trusted to look after us, that putting healthcare in the hands of the corrupt govt would be tantamount to handing over all your civil liberties. There are no govt or consumer controls sufficient to protect us from the big bad govt.

So the govt should be relied on to protect us in the workplace but can't be entrusted with the health of its people?

Government is just a very inefficient business with no incentive to be competitive (sanctioned monopoly). Large corporations are an oligopoly controlling an industry.
There is really very little difference in the two, and the larger a corp/smaller the competition, the more similar they become.

I agree that healthcare might as well be an uncontrolled tax as it is now, there is no effective cap on what we can be charged, where the premiums are going and who gets what type of care as it is. No one in the US can be refused basic care today.

If you have no insurance, you may not get liposuction and a 500 pack of zanax on the house, but if you break your leg or have a fever, the ER will see you and get you back on the road.