Keep buying crap made in China suckers

[AK47]

You all are crazy letting the .gov be in charge of your healthcare and letting them keep track of your medical records.

[Endrik]

You all are crazy letting the .gov be in charge of your healthcare and letting them keep track of your medical records.

I don't know in what world you are living in but the only thing the government does is financing the medical facilities through the Health Care Department. Health Care Department is independent from the government when it comes to privacy, direct involvement etc. Medical records are confidential and no outsider has access to them. There wont be any info about people's names and their diseases available to government or any other organization or people.
The only way to get my info is to break into the hospital and steal the documents. That being said what the heck are the politicians gonna do with my medical records? Like they aren't enough busy wasting tax payers money on dinners at Michelin star restaurants, golf courses, luxury cars, vacations etc. :ROTF:

[bibz]

Theres over 20 million people in australia. If they want to single out me and see I had swollen balls when I was 2 and OCD, fuckin' let em! Infact, they can just google this post! Besides being a massive waste of time, what can they do with that information? Call me 'monk' and stare at my crotch?

You guys have zero faith in the government, but 100% idolisation of the ideals they spew forth. It's time to sink your teeth into reality, and make the most spendy government of all time spend it on YOU THE PEOPLE.

Yesterday I went into town and had a cop pass me sirens blazing. Then the police rescue truck. Then another ambulance and a fire engine. And it showed me, government is fucking important. Just helps having a good one.

Politicians are totally cunts though!

[AK47]

Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

[Endrik]

Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Just because this Daschle character has a lousy idea doesn't mean the whole world works like that.
Kinda retarded idea about guiding the doctors. One of the most important things about the Social Healthcare is to provide the best possible treatment. No politician douche or businessman douche has any business in how the people should be treated. The Health Departments are run by professional medic experts. And they deal even with cases like when there's a certain operation which is only done in Holland for example... then they arrange it. Or when there's a certain drug which is only in South France... then they get it for you.
Government provides money, people are handled by the medics. That's the point.

[GodOfRhythm]

Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Okay. As irony would have it, I can't reply in full right now, as I have to go interview a couple of specialists on their experiences with euthanasia on non-terminal patients (which is a legal possibility here for patients). But I would like to point out one thing. A control on what doctors prescribe, which more often than not is a control after the fact, or possibly a priori by prior legislation, is REQUIRED in a social healthcare system. The problem I see with people having a wrong view with social insurance and aid, and social healthcare in particular, is that they hold it upto some kind of fairy tale ideal they have in their head without any thought of the simple, de facto requirements and legal implications that have to be thought of. A well functioning system is one that, through both incentives and obligations for the recipients AND the givers AS WELL as the intermediaries (doctors, hospitals,...), offers the greatest amount of people, the best possible healthcare. That is essentially what anyone with half a brain would want. There are regulations in place in Belgium and we've always been high up on the social healthcare system ladder. In fact we even have a lot of so called 'medical tourism' because our MEDICAL system is so good. That's right, we have far stretching social healthcare, yet at the same time we are among world leaders in medical advancements and science and medical care. So don't say the two are mutually exclusive......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. . ................ And let me just say, VitaminG nailed on the head at least one of the things I was gonna say: you pay a little more tax (if that is the way that's chosen to collect your social contribution), social contributions in themselves are NOT taxation. Social contributions do, as a principle, NOT go into the common government budget to do with as they please. It goes into function and type specific funds. Think of it as a gigantic savings accounts, where everyone contributes a little and when someone who has regularly and in an acceptable way contributed, gets ill/homeless or whatever, he is at least up until a certain standard taken care of, paid, at least in part, by money coming from the savings account. And just the knowledge of that is SUCH a good, safe feeling that is well worth paying 2% of your income towards, specifically reminded of the fact that you don't need any personal contingency plans. You can perfectly have a social healthcare system supplemented by particular, albeit commercial insurance plans, for whomever chooses to have additional coverage in other areas. I will go into the subject deeper tonight, when I have the time.

[Endrik]

If I'd be an American I'd buy a travel insurance... it costs less than 200 bucks for one year and it covers for 100,000 dollars anywhere in the world.
Whenever I'd get sick I'd buy a plane ticket to Belgium... I'd go to the hospital and say "I'd came to see the house where Van Damme was born but I suddenly feel very ill, bad French fries perhaps?" :ROTF:

[AK47]

Okay. As irony would have it, I can't reply in full right now, as I have to go interview a couple of specialists on their experiences with euthanasia on non-terminal patients (which is a legal possibility here for patients). But I would like to point out one thing. A control on what doctors prescribe, which more often than not is a control after the fact, or possibly a priori by prior legislation, is REQUIRED in a social healthcare system. The problem I see with people having a wrong view with social insurance and aid, and social healthcare in particular, is that they hold it upto some kind of fairy tale ideal they have in their head without any thought of the simple, de facto requirements and legal implications that have to be thought of. A well functioning system is one that, through both incentives and obligations for the recipients AND the givers AS WELL as the intermediaries (doctors, hospitals,...), offers the greatest amount of people, the best possible healthcare. That is essentially what anyone with half a brain would want. There are regulations in place in Belgium and we've always been high up on the social healthcare system ladder. In fact we even have a lot of so called 'medical tourism' because our MEDICAL system is so good. That's right, we have far stretching social healthcare, yet at the same time we are among world leaders in medical advancements and science and medical care. So don't say the two are mutually exclusive......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. . ................ And let me just say, VitaminG nailed on the head at least one of the things I was gonna say: you pay a little more tax (if that is the way that's chosen to collect your social contribution), social contributions in themselves are NOT taxation. Social contributions do, as a principle, NOT go into the common government budget to do with as they please. It goes into function and type specific funds. Think of it as a gigantic savings accounts, where everyone contributes a little and when someone who has regularly and in an acceptable way contributed, gets ill/homeless or whatever, he is at least up until a certain standard taken care of, paid, at least in part, by money coming from the savings account. And just the knowledge of that is SUCH a good, safe feeling that is well worth paying 2% of your income towards, specifically reminded of the fact that you don't need any personal contingency plans. You can perfectly have a social healthcare system supplemented by particular, albeit commercial insurance plans, for whomever chooses to have additional coverage in other areas. I will go into the subject deeper tonight, when I have the time.

Back in 2003 I worked with a start-up IT company contracting through American Healthways and some other big time Medial Insurance companies. We were developing software that databases and uses statistics to decide what treatment a patient would get. At the time they were trying to lobby the Republican party to make this database and software mandatory. Since then the project and companies have changed a few times. I left the project in 05. At the time I did not have a moral objection to the project because I was getting paid and never thought it would really go anywhere.

A universal software program that is so simple the lowest common denominator can input a patient’s info and get told what is the correct treatment based on many factors.

One factor to this was genetics so some people could be denied healthcare or required to take preventative care based on genetics and family history alone. Do you see where this is leading? What ethnic group has a higher risk of heart attacks and high blood pressure than any other group in the USA?

Sub-Saharan Africans do.

So people after a certain age or ethnicity can be denied coverage based on the fact treatment would be too costly and the patient’s productivity in the future would outweigh the cost.

Eugenics.


Sometimes instead of "Give me! Give me!" we need to look at the bigger picture.

[Endrik]

Back in 2003 I worked with a start-up IT company contracting through American Healthways and some other big time Medial Insurance companies. We were developing software that databases and uses statistics to decide what treatment a patient would get. At the time they were trying to lobby the Republican party to make this database and software mandatory. Since then the project and companies have changed a few times. I left the project in 05. At the time I did not have a moral objection to the project because I was getting paid and never thought it would really go anywhere.

A universal software program that is so simple the lowest common denominator can input a patient’s info and get told what is the correct treatment based on many factors.

One factor to this was genetics so some people could be denied healthcare or required to take preventative care based on genetics and family history alone. Do you see where this is leading? What ethnic group has a higher risk of heart attacks and high blood pressure than any other group in the USA?

Sub-Saharan Africans do.

So people after a certain age or ethnicity can be denied coverage based on the fact treatment would be too costly and the patient’s productivity in the future would outweigh the cost.

Eugenics.


Sometimes instead of "Give me! Give me!" we need to look at the bigger picture.

Dude, that's a fascist system not a Social Healthcare

[VitaminG]

Ben, as far as I know, nobody over here has medical benefits as part of their employment package.

You all are crazy letting the .gov be in charge of your healthcare and letting them keep track of your medical records.

haven't you already given away all your civil liberties & rights to privacy in the good name of Bush's "War on Terror" anyway?

I don't know what sort of software you were developing, but take it from someone who has spent his entire life in a country where social healthcare has been the norm - it doesn't work like that here. The Medicare system in Australia isn't some shiny new toy that I'm all excited about and am hence singing its glories from the rooftops. It has been a reality in this country for decades. As was a government provided telecommunications company that actually worked & the right for all Australians to an affordable tertiary education, regardless of social or financial standing. Unfortunately the outgoing Prime Minister did his best to fuck off those last two, but fortunately our public healthcare system still stands fast.

And anyone here is entitled to make use of it. The government's own discrimination acts would be enforced if any doctor or institution tried to deny care because of the reasons you've just outlined.



Endo, the father of a friend of mine neglected to take out travel insurance before travelling to the US a few years back. While he was there, he stupidly went and had himself a heart attack. Upon returning to Australia, he found himself the recipient of a bill for $50,000 for the healthcare he received while he was over there. Became a very expensive little holiday. Imagine if he'd been struck down by something more serious that required more & lengthier treatment?

[Endrik]

Endo, the father of a friend of mine neglected to take out travel insurance before travelling to the US a few years back. While he was there, he stupidly went and had himself a heart attack. Upon returning to Australia, he found himself the recipient of a bill for $50,000 for the healthcare he received while he was over there. Became a very expensive little holiday. Imagine if he'd been struck down by something more serious that required more & lengthier treatment?

that sucks Gary, luckly it was one of the first things I did before I went to US because I know that I can easily end up in hospital... very easy procedure... I stepped in to the travel agency and said I'm going to California and need a travel-health insurance... they asked for how long the insurance should last... I said, I'm not sure, maybe a year... they said ok that's 1800 kroons (less than 200 bucks)... I gave them the money... they gave me the insurance papers and it was done! Less than 5 minutes.

[hippietim]

Bear in mind I'm not saying we need an Obama Order to limit executive salary, I'm saying that execs need to take it upon themselves to protect American jobs and take a pay cut they can afford rather than cut the salaries of those who cannot afford it.

That is just never going to happen. Otherwise it already would have.

[GodOfRhythm]

Back in 2003 I worked with a start-up IT company contracting through American Healthways and some other big time Medial Insurance companies. We were developing software that databases and uses statistics to decide what treatment a patient would get. At the time they were trying to lobby the Republican party to make this database and software mandatory. Since then the project and companies have changed a few times. I left the project in 05. At the time I did not have a moral objection to the project because I was getting paid and never thought it would really go anywhere.

A universal software program that is so simple the lowest common denominator can input a patient’s info and get told what is the correct treatment based on many factors.

One factor to this was genetics so some people could be denied healthcare or required to take preventative care based on genetics and family history alone. Do you see where this is leading? What ethnic group has a higher risk of heart attacks and high blood pressure than any other group in the USA?

Sub-Saharan Africans do.

So people after a certain age or ethnicity can be denied coverage based on the fact treatment would be too costly and the patient’s productivity in the future would outweigh the cost.

Eugenics.


Sometimes instead of "Give me! Give me!" we need to look at the bigger picture.

I definitely understand where you are coming from. But this is what I meant with legal specifics that have to be addressed in any system. The fact that the system could either go good or bad is a secondary consideration. First of all, social healthcare should start to exist, it is only then that you can demand from your government to regulate it in the best possible way, which is inherently duty incumbent upon any democratic government.

[hippietim]

You all are crazy letting the .gov be in charge of your healthcare and letting them keep track of your medical records.

You think they'll do worse than the private sector? Really? Not a chance. The private sector is incredibly cavalier with your medical records.

And the private sector is doing a FUCKING HORRIBLE JOB providing health services these days.

I seldom go to the doctor but with a wife and two kids we end up spending time at the doctor's office periodically. Also, let me say that I have very good health insurance.

Going to the doctor's office is pure misery. They treat you like an inconvenience, they don't listen to a fucking thing you say, they push random new treatments on you, they want to prescribe you medicine that you are alergic to (after not reading the mountain of paperwork you filled out and after you explicitly tell them what you are alergic to 10 minutes prior), etc.

This is NOTHING like it was when I was growing up. Not even close.

A close friend of mine is a very respected PT (and a Republican so you Limbaughs can settle down) and he is appalled by the way the private sector has turned health care into a pure business with no real regard to patient care.

I have yet to meet a doctor, nurse, etc. in recent years that was any good that thought the system was working. The only ones that seem to think the system is good are the doctors that suck.

It's very easy to say that the government is not the solution but leaving health care entirely up to the private sector is completely flawed - it doesn't work worth a shit.

[Spivonious]

You think they'll do worse than the private sector? Really? Not a chance. The private sector is incredibly cavalier with your medical records.

And the private sector is doing a FUCKING HORRIBLE JOB providing health services these days.

I seldom go to the doctor but with a wife and two kids we end up spending time at the doctor's office periodically. Also, let me say that I have very good health insurance.

Going to the doctor's office is pure misery. They treat you like an inconvenience, they don't listen to a fucking thing you say, they push random new treatments on you, they want to prescribe you medicine that you are alergic to (after not reading the mountain of paperwork you filled out and after you explicitly tell them what you are alergic to 10 minutes prior), etc.

This is NOTHING like it was when I was growing up. Not even close.

A close friend of mine is a very respected PT (and a Republican so you Limbaughs can settle down) and he is appalled by the way the private sector has turned health care into a pure business with no real regard to patient care.

I have yet to meet a doctor, nurse, etc. in recent years that was any good that thought the system was working. The only ones that seem to think the system is good are the doctors that suck.

It's very easy to say that the government is not the solution but leaving health care entirely up to the private sector is completely flawed - it doesn't work worth a shit.

Yep, my Dad's one of the good doctors and he is 100% for socialized healthcare.