Keep buying crap made in China suckers

[Jayster]

And if all of you guys seem to believe we can have morality without spirituality, then why can we not have society without government?:think:

Then why did you ask about the possibility of morality absent spirituality? What does that have to do with government? :think:

[horns666]

Lucifer is watching God's mistake (humans)..and he's laughing his horns off!!!!

The ruler of Earth...and my desktop!!!
...




Bill Z Bub

..that is a cool picture..

[marcus]

Someone said that a certain amount of money should be collected from the citizens for the specific reason of the healthcare(sounds pretty good right?). WRONGO ~ We've tried this principal in this country before it was called social security(in case anyone is unfamiliar; this was designed to help all American citizens with retirement(for your entire working life a portion of your earnings are deducted from your income to provide this benifit)at a specified age you are able to collect a monthly portion of your deposits into this system). Sounds great right? WRONGO ~ someone in congress decided we should not have this money sitting in a safe manner for the intended purpose and the rest of congress agreed! Now even though I've paid in my whole life, I'll not see a dime!
Also this money is funding benifits for non-citizens as well(America has the worst illegal immigration problem in the world(I'm pretty sure)).

The social security trust fund, or lock box, or whatever you want to call it is spent by congress, however, this is implemented by using the excess of social security taxes collected to purchase government bonds. This money won't be there only if the USA defaults on these bonds. We will have much bigger problems if that happens, and I don't think any politician is foolish enough to let this happen. Even if the government defaults on all of these bonds, you will still get a benefit because current benefits are paid out of current tax receipts. The only way you won't get your social security is if congress enacts social security "reform" of the type Bush tried to push through.

[85 San Dimas]

Honestly, you non-socialized medicine types are doing a terrible job of convincing me that I should continue to accept expensive, poor quality, rationed health care instead of a single payer/socialized alternative

Because the system you advocate is unsustainable. The problem is the defiition of the argument. Gov't assistance or more gov't assistance when there should be NO gov't asistance at all.

way too much money being pulled from those breaking their backs to pay for those sitting on their asses. In fact, SO much that it has eclipsed both Defense and Discretionary spending...lets treat it like a common sense question....

That free checkup isn't free. Your neighbor had to pay for it. You cut your hand on broken glass and your neighbor got the bill. Your daughter has a baby and goes on assistance......and I get the bill? You get the RR1 and MY credit card gets billed. Sounds good for you doesn't it?

Thinking the gov't should be in all this stuff insures only 2 things..the bill will go up (as it has over the last 40 years of their sustained involvement), and the quality of service (not the technology) will go down as it has over the same amount of time). Factor in the insurance companies draining every penny out of the system for themselves and nothing works...which is the excuse to change it all to something even MORE dysfunctional.

Saw a good bumper sticker today...

"I'll keep my guns, my money, and my freedom. You can keep the "change"

[marcus]

And if all of you guys seem to believe we can have morality without spirituality, then why can we not have society without government?:think:

Then why did you ask about the possibility of morality absent spirituality? What does that have to do with government? :think:

Seeing as I didn't accept your analogy to begin with, this isn't very illuminating. I don't see the connection between morality/spirituality and society/government.

[marcus]

Because the system you advocate is unsustainable. The problem is the defiition of the argument. Gov't assistance or more gov't assistance when there should be NO gov't asistance at all.

way too much money being pulled from those breaking their backs to pay for those sitting on their asses. In fact, SO much that it has eclipsed both Defense and Discretionary spending...lets treat it like a common sense question....

That free checkup isn't free. Your neighbor had to pay for it. You cut your hand on broken glass and your neighbor got the bill. Your daughter has a baby and goes on assistance......and I get the bill? You get the RR1 and MY credit card gets billed. Sounds good for you doesn't it?

Thinking the gov't should be in all this stuff insures only 2 things..the bill will go up (as it has over the last 40 years of their sustained involvement), and the quality of service (not the technology) will go down as it has over the same amount of time). Factor in the insurance companies draining every penny out of the system for themselves and nothing works...which is the excuse to change it all to something even MORE dysfunctional.

Saw a good bumper sticker today...

"I'll keep my guns, my money, and my freedom. You can keep the "change"

I'm sorry but I just don't accept your premise that socialized health care is bad just because it involves the government. Virtually every other industrialized nation has socialized health care of one form or another and every one of them pays less per capita for health care then we do. They also manage to cover everybody! Even in our county, Medicare/Medicaid pays less for comparable coverage than the private insurers.

[marcus]

hey didn't you know that everyone who needs medical attention/health care are unemployed bastards or illegal immigrants... hard working, average wage earning Joe The Plumbers will never get sick and even if they do they wont have any problem paying for 120000 dollar costing operations

Why do you think I want a social safety net? I want to be taken care of when I quit my job to become a bum

[Newc]

Now, before I get jumped on yet again in this thread, I agree that the unions of today need an overhaul. I also agree that a "non-skilled" laborer working on the line at GM for example doesn't need to make $120K/year, but is having an entity that fights for workers rights such a bad thing?

However, who "needs" to make $1M a year? If the money is there, why not increase worker's pay at all levels, not just the "elite few" who were able to go to College simply because they went to College?

It's nice to think that all companies take those mil/billions they make and turn it right around to expand the company - more facilities, more jobs, etc - but in reality they stuff more into their pockets than they re-invest.
Since that's the case, why shouldn't it go to all levels in equal percentages?

The people at the top look down and say "well, that low wage is your punishment for being at the level you are", however, that completely ignores the fact that those levels are necessary for the company to exist, as everyone is now finding out.

Yes, the suck jobs that no one wanted have fled the country, and the few that remain are worked by illegal immigrants. What makes those jobs suck? The pay does not equal the work, and the work has no regard for safety since there's such a large labor pool - one complains or gets hurt, replace them.

Now these same companies that took that opportunity to grab even more cash for themselves are about to suffer the retribution that is due them, and even more people are going to pay the price for that line of thinking.

Again, I'm not suggesting we need guvmint intervention to take from the rich and give to the poor. These entities need to make the realization that the preservation of this country and indeed the global economy depends on them letting go of their moneylust.


On another note, I never did see the benefit of the Stock Market, nor why it was made the foundation of our nation's economy. It's 90% made up of IOUs and promises, and is a house of cards. It's like musical chairs, but the first one to tip the scales can upset the entire thing.
That's too much power to put on one piece of a puzzle, much like making the kernel do most of the work in Windows.

[Hellbat]

The problem as I see it is that all social programs such as medical care, social security, etc. are based on pyramid schemes. This is all fine and dandy if we keep breeding like cockroaches, but at the rate global population is rising we are going to hit a wall and stop feeding the bottom of the pyramid. The system is going to implode hard then, but I think we need some good genocide to thin the herd a little.

[Endrik]

That free checkup isn't free. Your neighbor had to pay for it. You cut your hand on broken glass and your neighbor got the bill. Your daughter has a baby and goes on assistance......and I get the bill? You get the RR1 and MY credit card gets billed. Sounds good for you doesn't it?

By that logic the society can work like this. Let's say you support the war in Middle East, the military gets their cut from your taxes, your neighbor doesn't support the war... he wont give any money/taxes to the military.
The police gets money from your taxes, someone broke into your house, the police comes to investigate it, your neighbor hasn't had any problems whatsoever, he doesn't pay for the police with taxes because police business seems to only involve around other people's lives. He doesn't care about the Police.

It's not so much about caring about other people, it's about empathy, relating to other people. Some can't relate to the people who need help until they are in deep shit themselves and they are billed with 300,000 dollars for the medical services. Sometimes the reality has to bite people's ass really had until they get the sense what's really going on.

It happened to my friend in San Diego. He was well insured, but was seriously sick, the expenses were so big that he had to sell his house. He now lives in Austria.

Factor in the insurance companies draining every penny out of the system for themselves and nothing works...which is the excuse to change it all to something even MORE dysfunctional

that's funny considering that US is the only industrialized western country which doesn't have a social healthcare and US health system is pretty much rated the lowest and have the most critics within the nation itself. not really my business but it's sad to see my friends getting screwed because of a shitty health system.

[VitaminG]

keep fighting the good fight, Endrik. I'm tired so I'm gonna have a lied down while someone else gets a bill for my mortgage payments

[rjohnstone]

However, who "needs" to make $1M a year? If the money is there, why not increase worker's pay at all levels, not just the "elite few" who were able to go to College simply because they went to College?

It's nice to think that all companies take those mil/billions they make and turn it right around to expand the company - more facilities, more jobs, etc - but in reality they stuff more into their pockets than they re-invest.
Since that's the case, why shouldn't it go to all levels in equal percentages?

The people at the top look down and say "well, that low wage is your punishment for being at the level you are", however, that completely ignores the fact that those levels are necessary for the company to exist, as everyone is now finding out.

Yes, the suck jobs that no one wanted have fled the country, and the few that remain are worked by illegal immigrants. What makes those jobs suck? The pay does not equal the work, and the work has no regard for safety since there's such a large labor pool - one complains or gets hurt, replace them.

Now these same companies that took that opportunity to grab even more cash for themselves are about to suffer the retribution that is due them, and even more people are going to pay the price for that line of thinking.

Again, I'm not suggesting we need guvmint intervention to take from the rich and give to the poor. These entities need to make the realization that the preservation of this country and indeed the global economy depends on them letting go of their moneylust.


On another note, I never did see the benefit of the Stock Market, nor why it was made the foundation of our nation's economy. It's 90% made up of IOUs and promises, and is a house of cards. It's like musical chairs, but the first one to tip the scales can upset the entire thing.
That's too much power to put on one piece of a puzzle, much like making the kernel do most of the work in Windows.

Guess you've never invested in anything and expected a return?
I'm not talking just about money either.

You have no clue how a little company becomes a big one do you?

Without investors, little companies cannot raise capitol to expand.
Inventors would never get their ideas to market because they wouldn't have any $$$ to build the factories and hire the people to run it.
That was the founding principle behind the establishment of the stock market.

Those investors are gambling on the company's success.
They stand to lose every penny they invested if the company fails.
So when the company is successful, they get a return on that investment.

Every company varies how much they pay as dividends to their investors and how much they put back into the company.
That's a decision the board makes.

You and I are merely cogs in the machine.
Corporations will eventually fail if they neglect the "cogs" too much.
And many have done just that.

If you feel your wage is a "punishment", quit.
Find a better paying job.

I won't get into futures trading or commodities. I think that shit has too much gray area for my liking.

[horns666]

I dunno WTF you guys are talkim' ' bout. Why would I give a fuck...I'm baked outta my mind and the goverment can suck it. They can suckle upon my shaven, veiny, wrinkled, egg basket!!!

Smoke weed..drink booze...we rule the fuckking land. Die by my hand!!...

AHHHHHHHHHHHH.......FUGGUMS!!!

Is Endy goin' off??...You go boyeeeeeeeeee...
..

Here's the thing man. I don't fuggin' gamble with my money. Money is god. It rules, controls and owns everything. Greed..you fuggin' bet. I take whatever I can get and don't give a flyng fuck about those who are stupid enough to throw their money on a Idian casino crap table (The stock market)...I laugh at you're fuckedupness., and fart on your face!!

I take..I need...I want...gimme ...gimme..more!!

[Nuclear Vampire]

Wow, I was gonna post a reply, but then saw the thread had spiraled into...a whole other thing.

I have a buddy who lives in China and has for the last 5 years, and even he won't buy the shitty knock off crap they sell there. You can't even trust that the "name brand" stuff there is legit. He's coming back here in May to buy the real deal for some electronics and whatnot. Just wanted to throw that in there.

Bill, your post made my day!

[hippietim]

The insurance and drug COMPANIES..as in buisness do.

Right. And they answer to shareholders, not patients.