Keep buying crap made in China suckers

[Endrik]

thanks captain obvious
I believe it's thought even in the 4th grade that Nazi's were national-socialists and social conservatives

anyway... Aussies have social health care.... correct me if I'm wrong but there's very few places in the world which have less government control than Australia... maybe Hong Kong but other than that...

[AK47]

I say a corporation would be much worse. They focus on money even more so than the government. I think the issue here is that you are thinking of this issue in relation to your government while we are in relation to ours which are different so we are almost arguing separate issues. Ours are more based on a European/British style (Both Canada and Australia being British Commonwealth Nations) while yours is your own. That's part of why you guys separated from England, isn't it? You wanted your own country ran your way. It's impossible to judge this argument without seeing from the other side.

Fun Fact: When translated to English the name that Nazi comes from translates to National Socialist German Workers Party. I've known that for quite a while being that I've always found history fascinating.

I view socialist programs as strongly anti-American so I tell people if thats what they want go to Canada or Cuba or wherever they have socialized medicine this is not going to work in America like it does in other countries. Its going to be a cluster fuck of epic proportions.

Regarding your fun fact when I was a kid I went to visit family in the old country both in Yugoslavia and Croatia. Half the family was pro-Nazi during WWII and the other half was Partisan or anti-Nazi. One of my Aunt's and great Aunt's had all this old Nazi propganda in storage because after the second World War the rest of the family made her take it all down. Most of it was anti-communist propaganda but I remeber this huge portrait of Hitler that supposedly she had in the front room that pissed the rest of the family off so she finally took it down.

[AK47]

thanks captain obvious
I believe it's thought even in the 4th grade that Nazi's were national-socialists and social conservatives

anyway... Aussies have social health care.... correct me if I'm wrong but there's very few places in the world which have less government control than Australia... maybe Hong Kong but other than that...

How were they social conservatives? They were pro Euthanasia against private firearm ownership, Himmler said you want to shoot guns join the SA or the SS.

State sponsored birth control, abortion were all part of the Nazi bag of tricks that is not socially conservative to me.

[Endrik]

Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Franco Spain, Today's Burma, Iraq etc. are prime examples of social conservatism. Prime example of Life Style Police... dictating how you should live, what to like etc. and what not to do.. who you are suppose to hate etc.

[atomic charvel guy]

Been telling you guys, it doesn't matter.

According to Nostradamus all this shit will not matter after 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Joe, but I am the all wise and ever knowing "Nostra -Thomas",
and all this shit will not matter when 2094 rolls around when the Rangers finally win another Stanley Cup.

[marcus]

What I mean by the BATFE and regulatory power as in they interpert the laws they enforce which is a very dangerous thing. They collect evidence conduct there own investigation for which there is no federal guideline for then present them in court as undisputed fact.

Do you realize by having a socialized system you are left up to .gov maintaning control of your medical records and they decide what doctors you see. Lets say DHS thinks you are a "Right wing extremist" and you get on the list. You then go to the doctor to get treated for skin rash. They see you are on a "list" refer you to a psychologist. Then give you a diaganosis of DOP or delusions of Parasitosis and mentally incompetant. This was a common practice by other socialist or communist countries in the past.

You're just making shit up here. I see no reason to believe that any of this will happen under the current proposals. Are you familiar with them at all? Nobody will be forced to use the government health care option. You will still have the choice of keeping your health coverage that you have now. I actually didn't support Obama during the democratic primary because I felt his health care reform proposals did not go far enough.

Nothing complicated about Nazi ideology. They were Socialist that beleived in Eugenics. Where do you think Volkswagen came from? What does the name mean? They pushed issues like gun registration, universal healthcare and the people's car. They were by no means consevative or right wing even though the popular belief today in America is they were. They were a bunch of angry workers mad at the greedy corporations oh sorry I mean jews and wanted all the things you guys in this thread want.

You seem to be trying to paint the Nazis as some kind of left wing party, but this is just not the case. They were nationalists, pro-military & pro-expansion, and perhaps you have heard, they violently persecuted the jews and homosexuals. This sounds very right wing to me. In any case, what the hell does this have to do with the US and socialized health care? Where are the death camps in Sweden?

[marcus]

I view socialist programs as strongly anti-American so I tell people if thats what they want go to Canada or Cuba or wherever they have socialized medicine this is not going to work in America like it does in other countries. Its going to be a cluster fuck of epic proportions.

Saying that we shouldn't have socialized health care because its anti-American is actually a very weak argument. On the one hand, it is incorrect. On the other hand, it reeks of not having something better to say.

You do have somewhat of a point about it perhaps not working here though. The biggest hurdle is people having great misconceptions about what the implications of socialized health care are. A lot of people seem to think that it will be more expensive, and that it will lower quality. There is a lot of evidence that it is not the case, but that doesn't stop the Republicans from relentlessly pushing this line of argument. Since the Republicans are in the pocket of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries they will do everything in their power to stop it from happening, or at least watering down any reforms with huge giveaways to the corporations. This must not be allowed to happen. See the medicare drug program that was designed by Republicans for an example of this.

[horns666]

"State sponsored birth control, abortion were all part of the Nazi bag of tricks that is not socially conservative to me. "


Then I'm a flaming Nazi!!!

Where do I sign?

[Ben...]

Do you realize by having a socialized system you are left up to .gov maintaning control of your medical records and they decide what doctors you see. Lets say DHS thinks you are a "Right wing extremist" and you get on the list. You then go to the doctor to get treated for skin rash. They see you are on a "list" refer you to a psychologist. Then give you a diaganosis of DOP or delusions of Parasitosis and mentally incompetant. This was a common practice by other socialist or communist countries in the past.

Where do you get this stuff? I can pick whatever doctor I want. You can book an appointment with whoever you want, whenever you want and even get payed leave to go see them. I have a particular doctor who helped me deal with my severe strep throat I was getting a few years back. He was a completely different doctor than our family doctor. I prefer him though my mom prefers our old family doctor. Being that I'm not the age of majority I cannot book appointments for myself (As far as I know anyway) but as soon as I'm 18, I'm going to him instead. Who ever you got that info from is borderline tinfoil hat crazy.

"State sponsored birth control, abortion were all part of the Nazi bag of tricks that is not socially conservative to me. "


Then I'm a flaming Nazi!!!

Where do I sign?

No kidding. Our population is getting way too big and way too dumb at an alarming rate. People have said I have borderline socialist views and I don't necessarily disagree with that.

[Bert]

Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Franco Spain, Today's Burma, Iraq etc. are prime examples of social conservatism. Prime example of Life Style Police... dictating how you should live, what to like etc. and what not to do.. who you are suppose to hate etc.

Exactly. AK47 -- seriously, go back to your gun control debates where you actually know something about which you are talking about.

[hippietim]

Well I am tired of all this class envy and .gov should take care of me nonsence.

Well, *somebody* is going to have to take care of some substantial number of people. There are a lot of people in the US that simply don't make enough money to cover their own health care services without insurance. And they don't have insurance. What do you do with them? And almost nobody in the US makes enough money to cover their own health care in the case of a major medical condition - often with some form of basic insurance. What about them?

Seriously, someone has to foot the bill or we're saying "fuck 'em". A serious medical condition is probably the most sure fire way to become homeless and destitute almost overnight in the US. Does that seem like a good approach?

It comes down to who do you trust more the Corporations or .gov?

If you assume both entities are operated by humans with roughly the same fundamental characteristics: varying degrees of love, hate, greed, generousity, ambition, apathy, etc. IOW, both .gov and .com are full of all sorts of people from good to bad and the folks that typically rise to the top are pretty similar.

Then it comes down to what is the fundamental purpose of each: .gov is to serve the people and .com is to make shareholders money.

I think I would rather have health care provided to me by the group whose goal is to serve the people rather than the group whose goal is to make a few dozen folks very wealthy.

I chose the corporations because they cant throw me in jail or decide what civil liberties to take away from me based on my medical history.

But corporations will sell you out in a heartbeat. Corporations already use medical conditions against employees all the time.

I do understand your concerns about the government taking away civil liberties after the last 8 years under the Bush administration. As Bush demonstrated so successfully, government always has the ability to use fear as a motivator to take away your civil liberties.

.gov can and will fuck you when they deny you healthcare treatment based on your age and history regardless of if you have money or not, so you have no one else to cry to but yourselves.

I'm glad you brought this up, it is exactly that sort of treachery that corporate America has demonstrated they would do time and again. Before labor laws, protections for pension funds, etc. companies would routinely leave senior employees out on the street, rape the pension fund, dismiss them just short of full retirement, etc.

Putting your well being in the hands of folks whose sole motivator is profit is a fundamentally flawed approach.

[GodOfRhythm]

Like I said before.

AK's argument has more to do with a (perceived) flaw in government or democracy than with (socialized) health care.

Your conspiracy theories are just unfathomable.

[horns666]

..

[442w30]

..

Friggin' Awesome!

[85 San Dimas]

Seriously, someone has to foot the bill or we're saying "fuck 'em". A serious medical condition is probably the most sure fire way to become homeless and destitute almost overnight in the US. Does that seem like a good approach?

It beats sharing the misery with those who have done no wrong. Punishing savers to underwrite spenders is no good. Sometimes we just have to accept that life isn't fair.

One thing an old guy told me once...if you want to be rich one day just watch the poor people..............and then don't do what they do. If you want good heathcare look at what HAS worked and what HAS not. What DID work was simple GP offices that served a clientele. we don't have more diseases than before, just more drugs being marketed trying to convince people to buy them. It's about generating Patents then profits. Drugs should not be advertised. That's IMHO. But to me this is not:

No matter what your philosophy it comes down to this: if the non-producers live as good a lifestyle as the producers sooner or later the producers will ask "why the hell am I underwriting them?" and no lib has an answer for that. The Soviets had 70 years to crack that fundamental problem and failed. We need to get back to "if you don't work you don't eat." if your co-worker sits on his ass all day while you work your guts out and both get paid the same, and both get the same raise then after while you'll sit your ass down right beside him. Why wouldn't you? That's why the Soviet system failed. That's why the crap thye built was no good, and oftentimes did not work.

Back to IMHO:
That's why we need to stop this crap or there won't be anything left but the "shared misery". All this is a result of laziness. When your fat and happy nothing is good enough. if you had to worry where your next meal was coming from (every day, not the last day before payday) then people'd have less time to worry about animals in makeup, political correctness, or why Mexicans buying guns, and shooting people south of the border for srug money was OUR fault. We didn't force them to do anything. They made the choices. Our fault my ass. I beleive in workers rights and I believe in freedom from oppression.
Not freedom from recession, depression, or self inflicted poverty.

I'll keep my guns, my money, and my freedom...you can keep the "change"