Michael Jackson died

[rjohnstone]

No matter what you think of someone,piling on, making jokes and slamming someone after they are dead is kind of lame.

Why? People bashed the freak while he was alive too.
Death doesn't earn someone instant respect. What you do while you're alive determines how you are remembered in death.
Michael put out some cool music 20+ years ago... since then it's all been down hill.
I'll give him props for what he did in the 80's, but it ends there.

[broken_fusion]

Believe me.I'm no fan. Never have been. I guess i just have a hard time making fun of dead people. But, carry on.

[Jayster]

you know when it's bedtime at the jackson house?
The little hand touches the big hand ............

[SEEGERMANY]

ok...anyone else sick of hearing about Michael Jackson's death?

Yep, but we better get used to it. Or, do like I do and just leave the TV off.

[Flatpicker]

I'm going to let it go at this.
I believe in the concept that all of us are innocent until proven guilty. He wasn't proven guilty so he was innocent as far as I was concerned.

He was weird in his personal life, with the oxygen chambers and plastic surgeries and such. That's not a crime.

RIP - Music Guy.

Now I'm done about MJ. I haven't watched the 24hr news at all this week. I find I don't miss it.

[leftybob]

I like this tribute song here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub5BD0pUKGk

[Shawn Lutz]

Everything is not cut and dry in a court of law, innocence or guilt. If you have deep pockets and are tried in the US judical system you can beat just about anything except tax evasion. There are many innocent people in prison (look how many peole are exonerated because DNA evidence proves their innocence) and there are guilty people who walk free (OJ murder trial).

[Flatpicker]

Shawn,
You are right, but, you have to draw the line somewhere. Everything is not cut and dried in real life either.

I tried to think of it this way.
If I don't believe in the process of law is this situation, there is no saying that it could not happen to me, or someone I know or care about.
I've worked with kids in the past, used to teach computers at a B&G Club and have seen how someone can have their lives ruined because the child was lying or angry that they did not get their way.

I've seen a marriage ruined and this woman's husband jailed, because the stepdaughter did not like him and told police that he "touched" her. It took months for his innocence to be proven and eventually the child, (she was 16 at the time) recanted the story.

I'm afraid to be with kids alone anymore, just in case 10 years down the road, they decide to remember something I never did. Be it for media attention, money, or just because they want to ruin someones life.

I can't condemn someone if they were found innocent. Because I never want to be in that situation.

For what it's worth, it drove me away from working with kids. I never want to have even a question of impropriety thrown my way. The court of public opinion seems to have no respect for the rule of the judicial system.

As for him settling with the kids parents. It's something that big corporations do also, it doesn't mean guilt. (if I was a parent and believed that someone molested my kids, no amount of money would stop me wanting to see them in jail.) It just takes the mess out of the public eye.

Kind of like the McDonalds Hot Coffee thing, it's less expensive to pay off the complaint than take this to court and lose business.

[toejam]

Kind of like the McDonalds Hot Coffee thing, it's less expensive to pay off the complaint than take this to court and lose business.

What a lot of people don't know is that McDonald's case was overturned on appeal, and the stupid old lady got a hell of a lot less money. She shouldn't have gotten shit, because she was a dumb ass.

[Spivonious]

Spiv,

Do you and your wife have children? Would you let them sleep over at MJ's house?


Edit ~~ just for fun .... http://www.online-browser.com/browse...tbA%3D%3D&b=13

Not sure how the Islam conversion applies here, but anyway...

No we don't have kids yet. If we did, I'd make sure I knew the other guy/other family well before I let my kid sleep over.

MJ was seriously messed up in the head, but I don't think he ever intended to do anything wrong. Even so, I probably wouldn't have let my kids sleep over there even before the accusations.

[Flatpicker]

What a lot of people don't know is that McDonald's case was overturned on appeal, and the stupid old lady got a hell of a lot less money. She shouldn't have gotten shit, because she was a dumb ass.

I didn't know that.

[jacksoncsplayer]

Pretty cool info here from a couple good guys.

I worked with Michael on many occasions...first in 1979 shortly following the release of "Off The Wall", which was recorded at my old studio, Image Recording, when it was owned by its former owner, Allen Zentz.

I then spent some time in 1980 (or 81?) with Michael recording demo's for Thriller. This was great, because it was just the two of us and whoever Michael had coming in. "John, we have Jonathan Moffit coming at 12:00, then Greg Phillinganes at 1:00...oh, and we're recording strings at 4:00!". Wow, what a great experience working so closely with him. I had him on the mic for some days recording vocals, and it was an amazing experience...he would be dancing up a storm while singing and doing all of those "grunts, oohs, ahhs" vocal sounds that would pepper his tracks. He asked me to take up the carpet so he could dance, and in between takes, he would sing other popular songs of the day just freestyle and acapella and we would talk about the music we liked.

Over the next year or two, I hosted the Jacksons many times, recording various tracks, claps (we had a jacuzzi room which they loved to use for the massive white-noise claps that people liked back then). I got to know all the brothers.

Bruce Swedien came back to Image Recording to record a song (or two?) for the Jackson's "Victory" record in about 1983. Another great experience, as Bruce did (as I recall) a string quartet and (perhaps) Michael's vocal at the same time. Bruce IS the best of all time, by the way. BEST.

I believe there were a couple of sundry Jacksons sessions over the next couple of years, but by that time, Michael was hugely popular and I didn't see him as much. The next time was really in 1995, when Robmix and I worked on the HIStory album. Rob worked on this for quite a long time (2 years?), while I worked on it for a few months. We were all holed up in Larrabee North, where Bruce had a room (or were you guys at Record One, Rob?)...Eddie Delena was recording quite a lot Michael's vocals at Larrabee in one room, and I was put in another room to engineer for whomever needed it...my most memorable session being some days with Dallas Austin and on one day, recording The Notorious B.I.G. for his rap on "This Time Around". There I was, standing in a room with Dallas, Biggie and Michael. I'll never forget it.

The final days of that album were made interesting, by Bruce giving me the task to sequence the album and edit it down to a size that we could fit onto a CD. This was no small undertaking, as about 7 minutes needed to be trimmed somewhere. I laid this all out in Sound Tools and came to know every bar of every song very intimately. I found places where songs could be tightened up and came up with many suggestions. On the night of mastering, I was put in a room at Bernie Grundman's with my Sound Tools rig, and in this room, I would have to "negotiate" with Michael about what to take out. I'll never forget this night...Michael came in, and Bruce told MJ that we would have to remove either 1) one whole song or 2) edit the others to fit onto a CD. We chose the latter...I started with song one and played Michael my edits, "Oh no, we can't take THAT out...it's my favorite part of the album!". OK. Let's try another, "Oh no, we MUST keep those four bars". OK...let's go to the vamp, which carries on for two minutes...how about removing these eight bars, "Oh no, that's my favorite part of the vamp!". Well, you get the picture. Meanwhile, Jimmy Jam was in with us, telling Michael that all these edits were killer and actually make things better. And over the course of about 5 hours, we got it down. By this time, it was probably 3:00am, and I was wiped out. Bruce walked in..."Okay, John, I want you to make all these edits on the 1/2" masters right now!". My first thought was, "You've GOT to be kidding!" I had used some crossfades in Tools and such, plus I was worn out from "bartering" with Michael. But, into Bernie's room we went, and with Bruce over my shoulder, I cut the 1/2" tapes. As I recall, this took a couple of hours, and we were done. By the way, video footage of my "bartering session" with Michael exists, although I was never able to get a copy. Perhaps someday!

After that album's completion, we were all invited to The Neverland Ranch with spouses and kids for a day of fun, with Michael as our host. What a memorable day that I will recount in another post...my arms hurt now!

Rob Hoffman wrote:I was fortunate enough to work with MJ early in my career. He was an incredible artist. Talented beyond your wildest dreams. Extremely generous, and a hard worker. I actually went from a staff assistant at the Hit Factory in NYC to freelance engineer under Swedien and MJ. They were due to start in Los Angeles when the Northridge earthquake hit so they moved to New York. One room was all Bruce, the second room was the writing room. I started assisting Bruce's writing partner Rene Moore. I would track stuff with Rene, and Bruce would come in and tell me what I did wrong, sit in for a few hours and set us straight. After a couple months MJ arrived and the entire tour rig was moved in along with Brad Buxer, Andrew Scheps, and Eddie Delena. I continued to assist them until the whole crew moved to L.A., they decided to take me with them. I would assist Bruce during the day, and help out every where else at night - assisting, engineering, programming, and on one song playing guitar. We had two rooms at Record One, and two rooms at Larrabee where I met John. At one point in NYC we had just about every room at the Hit Factory. The crew was great, and I learned so much from all of them. I learned to engineer from Bruce Swedien, John, and Eddie, and got to sit in with producers like MJ, Jam And Lewis, Babyface, David Foster, Teddy Riley, and Dallas Austin.

I was actually asked to leave the project early on because there were too many people around and MJ didn't know me. Luckily, I was rehired about 10 days later. At the wrap party MJ apologized profusely, and expressed his gratitude. Truly the most sincere man you will ever meet.

Some random memories:


One morning MJ came in with a new song he had written overnight. We called in a guitar player, and Michael sang every note of every chord to him. "here's the first chord first note, second note, third note. Here's the second chord first note, second note, third note", etc., etc. We then witnessed him giving the most heartfelt and profound vocal performance, live in the control room through an SM57.

He would sing us an entire string arrangement, every part. Steve Porcaro once told me he witnessed MJ doing that with the string section in the room. Had it all in his head, harmony and everything. Not just little eight bar loop ideas. he would actually sing the entire arrangement into a micro-cassette recorder complete with stops and fills.

At one point Michael was angry at one of the producers on the project because he was treating everyone terribly. Rather than create a scene or fire the guy, Michael called him to his office/lounge and one of the security guys threw a pie in his face. No further action was needed . . . . .

During the recording of "Smile" on HIStory, Bruce thought it would be great if Michael would sing live with the orchestra. But of course, we didn't tell the players that. We set him up in a vocal booth off to the side. They rehearsed a bit without vocals in, then during the first take Michael sang, just about knocked them out of their chairs.

His beatboxing was without parallel, and his time was ridiculous.

His sense of harmony was incredible. Never a bad note, no tuning, even his breathing was perfectly in time.

Once, while we were taking a break, I think we were actually watching the OJ chase on TV, there was a news program talking about him being in Europe with some little boy. I was sitting next to the guy while the news is making this crap up. He just looked at me and said this is what I have to deal with.

I spent close to 3 years working with him, and not once did I question his morals, or ever believe any of the allegations. I wasn't even a fan then. I saw him interact with his brothers kids, other people's children, and at one point my own girlfriend's kids. I got to spend a day at Neverland with them. A completely incredible human being, always looking for a way to make all children's lives better. Every weekend at Neverland was donated to a different children's group - children with AIDS, children cancer, etc., and most of the time he wasn't there.

He was simply living the childhood he never had. In many ways he never grew up.

I was assisting Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis while they recorded the background vocals for "Scream" with MJ and Janet. The two of them singing together was amazing. Super tight, no bad notes. One part after another. When they took a break they sang the showtunes they used to sing as kids. Again, perfect harmony. Mj refused to sing the "stop f*ckin' with me part" because he would NOT curse.

I was the tape op for the recording of the background vocals on "Stranger in Moscow". Scared the hell out me. Michael was dropping in and out on syllables, rearranging the notes and timing as he put it down. No Pro Tools at the time, just 2" tape, and my punches.

I erased a live keyboard overdub that he played one night. He came in the next morning, replaced it, and never uttered another word about it.

I was there when Lisa Marie was around. They acted like two kids in love. Held hands all the time, and she hung out at the studio for quite a while. I never questioned their love for each other.

We recorded a Christmas song during the summer of '94 that needed a children's choir. Michael insisted that the entire studio be decorated with xmas lights, tree, fake snow and a sled for their recording. And he bought presents for everyone.

The last weekend of recording on HIStory he came to me and Eddie Delena, and said "I'm sorry, but I don't think any of us are going to sleep this weekend. There's a lot to get done, and we have to go to Bernie on Monday morning". He stayed at the studio the entire time, singing, and mixing. I got to spend a couple quiet moments with him during that time. We talked about John Lennon one night as he was gearing up to sing the last vocal of the record - the huge ad libs at the end of "earth song". I told him the story of John singing "twist and shout" while being sick, and though most people think he was screaming for effect, it was actually his voice giving out. He loved it, and then went in to sing his heart out. . . .

Later that night, while mixing, everyone left the room so MJ could turn it up. This was a common occurrence during the mixes, and I was left in the room with ear plugs, and hands over my ears, in case he needed something. This particular night, all the lights were out and we noticed some blue flashes intermittently lighting up the room during playback. After a few moments we could see that one of the speakers (custom quad augspuergers) was shooting blue flames. Mj liked this and proceeded to push all the faders up . . . .

MJ liked hot water while he was singing. I mean really hot !!!!! It got to the point that I would melt plastic spoons to test it.

Bruce and I were talking about walking to the studio everyday in NYC, and what routes we took. Michael looked at us and said we were so lucky to be able to do that. He couldn't walk down the street without being harassed. It was a sad moment for all of us.

The studio crew got free tickets to the Janet show so we all went right from work one night. About halfway through the show we see this dude with a long beard, dressed in robes dancing in the aisle behind. I mean really dancing . . . it was Mj in disguise. Kind of like the costume Chevy Chase wears in Fletch while roller skating.

He got one of the first playstations from sony in his lounge . . . we snuck in late at night to play the games that hadn't been released yet.

A couple people on the session hadn't seen Jurassic Park while it was out, so MJ arranged a private screening for us at Sony.

He was a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails Downward Spiral . . . .

I was lucky enough over the course of 3 years to have access to the multitrack masters for tour prep, videos, and archive purposes. To be able to pull these tracks apart was a huge lesson in production, and songwriting. A chance to look into the minds of geniuses.

Of all the records I've worked on, MJJ was the only company to give platinum award records.

One day we just all sat in the studio listening to his catalog with him for inspiration. He loved the process, he loved the work.
__________________
Rob Hoffman

[leftybob]

Music guru for sure, nice piece ... thanks for sharing

[Racerx2k]

Yes. But the cable news channels love it. Gives them something to do.
No matter what you think of someone,piling on, making jokes and slamming someone after they are dead is kind of lame.

No problem. I slammed him when he was ALIVE. Why do the whole Julius Caesar/praise thing, just because someone's wormbait? I said "fuggem", then, and I STILL say "fuggem", now.

[Rsmacker]

Pretty cool info here from a couple good guys.

I spent close to 3 years working with him, and not once did I question his morals, or ever believe any of the allegations. I wasn't even a fan then. I saw him interact with his brothers kids, other people's children, and at one point my own girlfriend's kids. I got to spend a day at Neverland with them. A completely incredible human being, always looking for a way to make all children's lives better. Every weekend at Neverland was donated to a different children's group - children with AIDS, children cancer, etc., and most of the time he wasn't there.

Well he's hardly going to say "Here, hold this kid whilst I fuck him" is he? Kiddie Fiddlers are nice, charming, wonderful people who wouldn't harm a fly - that's how they can worm into little boys' arseholes. If they all had fangs and looked like evil bastards they wouldn't get much molesting done, would they?

If he was that sharp, that much on the ball, he'd be well aware that having little boys in his bed was way wrong. If he'd been a total retard all round but a great singer, then I might believe he was just naiive, but he was clever, he simply thought he could get away with it.

Fuck him, guilty. Melt him down!