Any "Young Earthers" here. as in the earth is 6000 years old?

[Jayster]

Wow,

I'm going to address Marcus's question here, BigD you're not coming across very well in this thread ~ if your only intent is to antagonize people who have different beliefs then you are doing a good job!

In an effort to save time(I'm at work again), I'm going to plagarize some text here(over the weekend I'll address any other questions pertaining to this thought process and the deeper implications of it as applied to scientific theory) ;

Did you know that clocks tick progressively faster as you gain elevation? It's true, because time speeds up the farther you get from gravitational masses, such as the mass of the Earth, so carried to the extreme, during the six days of creation, when the beginning point of created matter expanded rapidly outward(as outlined in the big bang theory), that matter began to coalesce as stars, sending out light, but because those stars are hundreds of millions of miles away, does that necessarily mean that the light from them took billions of years to get here, and therefore those stars must be billions of years old?

Big bang theorists say that matter is is essentially homogenous throughout the universe, what they say is boundless, but with the beginning point for the big bang therefore necessitating an outer reach after its expansion, to an extent still unobservable to humans, it therefore must be a bounded universe, whos rapid expansion outward allowed gravitational time dilation ......

End of plagarism ~

If needed I'll be happy this weekend to explain the points I agree with and where I also have some issues with this theorem, however in a base manner this explains how the Earth could be both new and old!

As far as the bashing angle I've seen in here, it's dis-heartining!

Cheers

[Ben...]

Your pro social healthcare and now you are saying you think religion should be done away with...

Please do not get into that again. If you want to argue that, resurrect the old thread on it. It's all based on where you are and what you're used to. It seems Americans are absolutely terrified of a socialized medical system while most European countries and Canada are supporters of it because they have experience with it. Of course both sides will have people who do not like what they have.

Edit: For the record, I have similar views to that of GOR.

[AK47]

Please do not get into that again. If you want to argue that, resurrect the old thread on it. It's all based on where you are and what you're used to. It seems Americans are absolutely terrified of a socialized medical system while most European countries and Canada are supporters of it because they have experience with it. Of course both sides will have people who do not like what they have.

Edit: For the record, I have similar views to that of GOR.

We got something called Mexico on our southern border and guess who pays for their socialized health care?

Look at California one of the biggest economies in the world with tons of social progams, we are going broke. It just wont work in the USA.

It may work in some tiny little country in Europe but when you got every immigrant coming in from bumfuck, Egypt then it kind of sucks.

[fr0sty]

I would like to hear some of those stories if you wouldn't mind posting some.

thx

He has told me many stories of how the "church" is and the time he spent at the vatican really opened his eyes.....

[FlyingSkull]

just curious, how many of you bible experts attend a seminary or hold a degree in christian theology?

how many of you are priests or pastors?

many of you admit to having a strong lack of trust in organized religion/christianty. i find it rather amazing that you have such incredible, intimate knowledge of a book that contains fairy tales you find ridiculous. ironic really, that so many of you want to correct us christian retards on a book that we read and study intimately at least once a week if not more - and some of us have been doing that for years or even close to a life time.

Hey Mark,

Not a scholar by any means. I did spend 17 years of my life in a very religious and I mean Olde Time Religion household. That mean church every Sunday, come hell, high water or snow drifts. Involvement in church youth groups, summer camps, as well as getting dragged to other church members homes when the parents went visiting.

My parents and family members loved debating or I guess you would say "yelling" about the many aspects of debate WITHIN Christianity. Calvinism Vs Arminianism, the RCC, eschatology, bible versions, evangelical liberalism, music standards in church, sports on Sunday, drinking and smoking (those lucky Lutherans!) cults, etc etc etc, many times with the necessary twisting of scripture to prove or disprove whatever what on the docket that day.

I have read the Bible, KJV 1611 of course , studied the history of Evangelical Doctrine (from that lovely Pre-millennial, KJV-only, 6000 years of history POV). My parents and some relatives were really big on the whole "End Times" Armageddon, 7 years, Antichrist, 1000 year Reign, then the loosing of the Devil "for a little season". Imagine the uproar when Reformed relatives came over and said all that prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans burnt the temple! Awesome!

I realize now I didn't REALLY believe, even as a kid. I mouthed the words that was required to be accepted by my social group, which included my parents, friends, church peers etc. I was more interested in science books and quickly discovered a disconnect between my school books view of science and history, and what was taught in Sunday school.

After leaving home at 17 I drifted away slowly from religion. Mostly I read, a lot of things. Spinoza, Kant, Rand, Plato, Aristotle, and all the science, philosophy and history I could. I still do, my book shelf is pretty boring to most, filled with Philosophy, History and Science. That doesn't mean I don't keep some toes in the water with respect to religion. I hang out on a couple boards with very religious individuals, and just finished a book on the history of Ethics from the Ancient to Modern world that surveys ethical and moral developments including the many contributions from Christian thinkers like Augustine, Anselm, More, Aquinas etc.

PersonallyI have never felt anything spiritual. I have never had God talk to me. Oh I have tried to listen or have that experience, as growing up, that kind of "language" was around me. Seeing the different aspects at war within Christianity makes me shake my head. How can you say you are one in Christ with other believers, with so much opposition and varied beliefs? I never understood that.

Take the Calvinism(or Reformed view if you will) vs Free Will debate. I cannot understand how Christians can take either side of this debate and not excommunicate those who are on the other side. To me there is too much difference between a God who lets YOU choose Jesus, and a God who pre-decided before the foundations of the Universe that he would save you from the hellfire and condemn someone else to it. Total cognitive dissonance to me.

And therein is my major problem. Ask someone to define what God is. Well you will probably get a thousand answers from a thousand people.

Growing up I was taught he is Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent. Without getting into it too much here, to me there are logical leaps and too much circular reasoning to be had to grant those qualities to anything in reality.

So briefly (ha ha ya right!) the concept and attributes many ascribe to God, contradict Identity, and when you contradict Identity, at least in my mind, you have a problem with Existence.

So that is where I am coming from Mark, hope we can continue with the good discussions here.

For the record I would consider myself strong agnostic/weak atheist. But have lots of room for discussion with all.

All the best,

David

[marcus]

We got something called Mexico on our southern border and guess who pays for their socialized health care?

Look at California one of the biggest economies in the world with tons of social progams, we are going broke. It just wont work in the USA.

So your argument is that socialized health care won't work in the US because California, a state that doesn't have a socialized health care system, is broke? :think:

It may work in some tiny little country in Europe but when you got every immigrant coming in from bumfuck, Egypt then it kind of sucks.

A lot of European countries do have immigrants coming in from Bumfuck, Egypt and still manage to get it to work.

[marcus]

Wow,

I'm going to address Marcus's question here, BigD you're not coming across very well in this thread ~ if your only intent is to antagonize people who have different beliefs then you are doing a good job!

In an effort to save time(I'm at work again), I'm going to plagarize some text here(over the weekend I'll address any other questions pertaining to this thought process and the deeper implications of it as applied to scientific theory) ;

Did you know that clocks tick progressively faster as you gain elevation? It's true, because time speeds up the farther you get from gravitational masses, such as the mass of the Earth, so carried to the extreme, during the six days of creation, when the beginning point of created matter expanded rapidly outward(as outlined in the big bang theory), that matter began to coalesce as stars, sending out light, but because those stars are hundreds of millions of miles away, does that necessarily mean that the light from them took billions of years to get here, and therefore those stars must be billions of years old?

Big bang theorists say that matter is is essentially homogenous throughout the universe, what they say is boundless, but with the beginning point for the big bang therefore necessitating an outer reach after its expansion, to an extent still unobservable to humans, it therefore must be a bounded universe, whos rapid expansion outward allowed gravitational time dilation ......

End of plagarism ~

If needed I'll be happy this weekend to explain the points I agree with and where I also have some issues with this theorem, however in a base manner this explains how the Earth could be both new and old!

As far as the bashing angle I've seen in here, it's dis-heartining!

Cheers

I am well aware of the concept of time dilation. But this doesn't prove or explain anything. The fossil record on earth shows a history of millions of years. Carbon dating shows the earth to be billions of years old. The earth was clearly formed well after the big bang (note your "homogenous matter" claim). How do you reconcile this?

[atomic charvel guy]

Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Baptists, 7th Day Adventisits, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. etc. etc.

i think it really boils down to you're either a dick or you're not a dick to people.
Call me stupid or uninformed, but this is my belief.

[Big D]

Wow,

BigD you're not coming across very well in this thread ~ if your only intent is to antagonize people who have different beliefs then you are doing a good job!

Yes I offered a strong opinion of organized religion, and probably pushed a few buttons (maybe on purpose). It's hard for me to discuss religion anymore without offending believers, sorry.

My conversion (awakening) happened around time of the terrible tsunami about 5 years ago. It had been building over the years, but seeing thousands and thousands of innocent, dead children really pushed me over the edge. Our preacher told us "don't worry, god has everything under control". And I thought, “if god really has everything under control, and yet he’s letting people die and suffer for nothing, I don’t want anything to do with him”). That was a defining moment for me. I haven't been to a church since that day.

I'm sad when I see people suffering. People around the world are suffering right now and praying to an invisible being in the sky to help them. That help isn't coming. If they didn't believe in a god, they would realize that only people matter, and thus only people can help. God ain’t answering their prayers…because he doesn’t exist. Period.

Sorry if I offended you guys, but some of the condescending remarks you've made toward non-believers are just as offensive.

And one last piece of advice, if you want to be taken seriously, stay away from the anti-science arguments. Stay away from young earth “theories”, etc. These things do not help your cause at all.

[Big D]

As for the "punishments" you list, are you not familiar with the differences between the Old and New Testament? There is a reason that one is "Old" and the other "New" beyond just when the events within each occurs. I wouldn't *expect* you to know the difference, but if you're going to use those examples, you should be aware that Old Testament law was replaced by Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.

You make some great points and I agree with your "let's explore the truth" attitude. Regarding your comment above, yes I have studied the Bible both formally and informally. I've had several college classes on religion although I'm certainly no expert.

My point was that evangelicals who claim the Bible is the literal word of God should not be allowed to pick and choose when the Bible is the inerrant word of God. It either is, or it isn't. And that means the entire Bible, not just the New Testament.

[Jayster]

[horns666]

Ahhhh you guys are good people. We get pretty passionate on certain topics. Some of you must remember when I shared my elaborate views. I know many of you do.

I took it upon myself to do all the reasearch I could. Well, if you're going to devote your life believing, not believing or quit beliveing in something..you should do your homework. Especially if "soul searching".

For that obsession, I discovered that I was more open and knowledgeable to those who have degrees in theology or ordained. Including pastors, chaplins, clergy, ministers, elders, and such, and I can quote scripture with the best of them.

I searched and found some old threads of mine. I always came prepared, and always killed threads unchallenged. I left no room for debate whatsover. That satisfied me at that time but in hindsight I feel bad about doing that.

Because I was hurting and offending friends that I got along with so well on any other topic. That's not a way to treat a friend, especially ones that held me in high regaurd. Actually, that alone goes against my belief system. Even tho I simply conveyed my beliefs just like any other spiritual person. I didn't practice what I preach..RESPECT.

There is NO WAY I can explain, convey, or articulate my beliefs without offending anyone of white light based faiths. Yes, That should go both ways, but their ways is the norm and socially acceptable..and mine is not.

But even tho our morals may vary our value of good persons are the same.

That is the honest truth.

BTW Big D..Hey bro..you're all over some of my old threads. You wanted to buy me a beer!!

[Outlander]

Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Baptists, 7th Day Adventisits, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. etc. etc.

i think it really boils down to you're either a dick or you're not a dick to people.
Call me stupid or uninformed, but this is my belief.

Tommy I think you just broke the "Golden Rule" down into todays language, you know the one about treating your fellowman as you would like to be treated yourself. This one rule covers a lot of ground. Respect, that has been mentioned here quite a lot lately being just a part of that.

But even tho our morals may vary our value of good persons are the same. by Bill Z.
aahhh Bill I think we all may be more alike than most of us will admit to
ourselves let alone others.

I love the way truth cuts through all the crap and always has this certain, as they say, ring to it!

[Big D]

BTW Big D..Hey bro..you're all over some of my old threads. You wanted to buy me a beer!!

Still do!!!

[Shawn Lutz]

I wish I had to passion to debate this topic but I don't I do believe in the bible and Jesus Christ is the son of God... having said that I do believe it was written by man and man manipulates everyting to their advantage. Altough I consider myself a Christian I'm not a traditionalist. I dont go to church, believe in differences in sectors of religion (only one god, one religion) and attempt to convert non-believers. I believe we are here to learn to love and forgive each other before we progress on to the next level of existence...many mansions in the kindom of heaven.

Whether you believe or not you cant argue that world wouldnt be a better place if we all lived by the ten commandments

One thing the helps to somewhat confirm my beliefs are some NDE's from /God in heaven and it wasnt their time to die. They come back and have a totally different perspective on life on earth and what to expect on the next level of existence.

whatever you believe, just be cool unto others and they'll be cool to you