Any "Young Earthers" here. as in the earth is 6000 years old?

[FlyingSkull]

I have an invisible Ferrari. Parked in my garage. It's awesome. But don't ask to see it, only the true believers can.

Uh oh, that is the problem with arbitrary claims. They do not allow for any investigation. An arbitrary claim is worse than a claim that has been tested and proved false. At least with the understanding of a false claim we have gained knowledge.

Yes there are philosophical problems that scientific investigation runs into. But the neat thing with science is that it is generally open to new evidence.

The problem with religion for me is that it makes elaborate claims with no justification provided!

Check out what the brilliant Richard Feynman has to say about religion, science and knowing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeCHiUe1et0

[markD]

i am what most of you would consider a "fundamentalist christian"...i DO believe that God created the earth and man as it is written in the bible. i DO believe that the bible is a historical document. i have often struggled with the very issue that we are discussing since i came to my faith later in life.

i used to be as antagonostic as many of you are toward the beliefs of the "bible thumper". now i am a low grade bible thumper. i wear my faith proudly, and while many people find that to be weak or a crutch it works for me. afterall, faith is a belief in something you don't see or understand. i have come to realize that in my life there are MANY things i don't, can't and will not understand that are FAR simpler than the age of the earth.

call it a cop-out. ridicule me. call me ignorant. it's okay.

how i HAVE come reconcile the conflict between the biblical age of earth vs. the scientific age of earth (and this is frowned upon my some of my church buddies and may even, GASP, contradict my own beliefs - imagine THAT!) is that each of God's seven days was an epoch in time.

now i am no scientist, and truthfully, i care NOT to indulge in scientific debates because while i hold multiple college degrees, NONE are in science. in fact, it COULD be said that i hate science, but that does not cloud my judgement - just my desire to research!!!!

in MY head, the closest way to balance the "young earth" theory and the carbon dating stuff is pretty easy. it is clear dinosaurs were real. it is clear that there were other types of upright walking, man-like creatures walking around a long time ago. shoot, i just saw a whole bunch of bones when i was in DC a month ago. i will NOT debate their existance....

BUT, with the bible being a HISTORICAL book for the hebrew people, it is fair enough to assume (here is where my blasphemy comes into play) that the book of genesis is a creation tale, not unlike those of other cultures around the world. the hebrew people passed this tale down through time until moses put it to paper when he was writing the first 5 books of we now call the bible.

again, i FIRMLY believe this creation tale to be accurate and inspired. BUT, my human mind that seeks concrete answers to big, complex issues that are beyond my intelligence levels, thinks that each of the 7 days in God's creation COULD have been millions or billions of years. during which time these other things could have existed.

i know i will be labeled a contradictory hypocrite by many of you, possibly even my own christian brothers....BUT some of you have been asking for a theory of reconciliation to the "young earth" thought process and the carbon dating "FACT".

i have shared mine. ultimately, i will not know in this life, and truthfully i don't care. it doesn't make one iota of a difference in how i live my life and the differences i can make in other people's lives....and those are the things that are important to me.

[Big D]

So so sad. The Bible as a historical document? Shit, we can't even get the facts of what Bill Clinton did or did not do 15 years ago correct.

How in the hell can otherwise intelligent people be blind enough to believe that some crazy ass dudes in the desert 2,000 years ago captured all the facts acurately. This was 1,900 years before humans even generally accepted that matter is made of atoms. Or that bacteria and germs cause disease/sickness. 1,500 years prior to witches being burned at the stake!

And if the Bible is an accurate historical document, why are we not killing children for being disrespectful? Why are we not murdering those who have sex with animals? Why are we not offering our daughters up for rape? All these things and many more are MANDATED by the authors of the Bible. I could go on with examples, but I doubt your faith would let a little thing like facts get in the way.

Not to mention the little problem that the Bible actually was mostly written LONG after said events took place by people who were not actually named Paul, Mark, Matt, etc. Just like Islam and all the others, 90% of it is complete and utter nonsense.

BUT, whatever makes you happy is fine with me.

[markD]

well, i was hoping to receive comments on my thoughts rather than reading ANOTHER attack on the bible, but ehh, whatever.

thanks for your approval regarding my ability to believe what i want. i feel much better!!!!

i hope you are having a filled with half the peace and joy that i am. and i mean that with all sincerity.

[Big D]

In other words, you were hoping to receive comments that avoided any discussion of facts.

Mark, I get it dude. I used to be moderately religious. Like all the others, I had just never stopped to really think it through and do the research for myself. It *feels* good to believe that there is someone in the sky that loves you and cares for you. It feels good to be part of a group of believers that care about you. I get it...but it's just not honest. It's not rational. It's not real.

I am an Agnostic in the truest sense of the word. I DON'T KNOW if there is a higher power or not, but I'm willing to consider that there might be. But we don't know who/what/when/where/why or anything else about the higher power. To say that we KNOW the Bible is fact and then turn around and talk about needing faith just doesn't work. All we really have are stories made by man - designed to control and influence people and wealth.


Here is a great example of why religion really doesn't need people like me to beat it down. You do a good enough job on your own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFvTAH2XgMg

[markD]

nah, not trying to avoid a discussion of facts, just being honest that i don't have much if any pertinent scientific knowledge to debate the theology against your "fact".

i do think, though, if people like you took 2 seconds to put away your own defenses and aggression you could listen to an "idea" based on logical thought that attempts to balance (or create a bridge between) "young earth" and scientific "facts".

instead your blindness and anger continues to push in a direction that views people with my beliefs as being weaker and dumber. more power to you if you feel better to beat up on people that voice their opinions and DO believe in a "higher power".

it continues to be interesting from a sociological view point....thanks for more insight.

[SEEGERMANY]

I wonder who had the job of cleaning the T-Rex cages on the Ark?

[FlyingSkull]

I wonder who had the job of cleaning the T-Rex cages on the Ark?

Oh come on, everyone knows they got around that problem by just putting dino eggs on the ark.

Noah's kid:

"Hey dad, doing inventory sucks! All these damn eggs look the same, but they are yummy with a bit of oregano!"

[fr0sty]

But the word used in Genesis is "day". The Hebrew word, from what I have read, in this context means one 24 hour period.

Also, there are two different creation accounts in Genesis. They both can't be taken literally and be correct.

how i HAVE come reconcile the conflict between the biblical age of earth vs. the scientific age of earth (and this is frowned upon my some of my church buddies and may even, GASP, contradict my own beliefs - imagine THAT!) is that each of God's seven days was an epoch in time.

[Hellbat]

I wonder who had the job of cleaning the T-Rex cages on the Ark?

We all know the Flying Spaghetti Monster was responsible for carrying the T-rex during the flood.

Always with the baiting SeeG! You are the master baiter!

[toxikdeth]

I hate when stuff turns into a battle of religion keep yout religous stands to yourself. In the words of king diamond there is no way to prove that there is or isnt a god. So everybody quit your bickering. Arent we all just brothers of metal.....alright that one was pretty gay but you get what im saying

[FlyingSkull]

So everybody quit your bickering. Arent we all just brothers of metal.....alright that one was pretty gay but you get what im saying

This is what you are getting after right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_UGFLT0VMY

[markD]

But the word used in Genesis is "day". The Hebrew word, from what I have read, in this context means one 24 hour period.

Also, there are two different creation accounts in Genesis. They both can't be taken literally and be correct.

yeah, like i said, it's just a thought for meto put the issue to rest in my head

[toxikdeth]

This is what you are getting after right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_UGFLT0VMY

Indeed yes I am

[Vass]

Catholics may not be young earthers, they just think it's cool to kill abortion doctors and send the pope to Africa to tell all the black people they'll burn in hell if they use condoms (never mind that little AIDS thing).

C'mon man. You're better than this.

Extra points for the implied racism. FYI Africans make up one of the biggest if not the biggest part of the Church. We almost got a Pope from the continent in 2005 and it would be surprising if an African did not become Pope within the next couple decades (only that long because it's a lifetime appointment). Catholics in general are pretty excited about that idea, not because it's novel but because most Catholics in this country have had African priests, and by and large they're very passionate about their calling.

I'm not going to address the insanity about abortion doctors. I'm also not going to address at any great length church doctrine regarding condoms. Sufficient to say it's not as cut and dried as you suggest, and to claim that the Catholic Church, whose hospitals, priests, nuns & laity have cared for more AIDS patients around the world than any other, in some of the most horrible places imaginable, wants people to die of AIDS is just sad.

You've basically accused all Catholics of being murderers & conspirators to genocide. Is that really what you wanted to get across?

I believe in evolution and do not believe the world is 6000 years old, by the way.

Everyone knows the world began in 1956 when Randy Rhoads was born, duh.

You're agnostic and I think that's an eminently reasonable and rational thing to be. Even the most faithful (myself included) in fairness have to declare a sliver of agnostism (is that a word?), just as even the biggest atheist must have some sliver of faith (or perhaps belief is a better word) in certain moments. My opinion is that anyone who will admit to neither is a zealot. I don't mean that someone who has strong faith is a lunatic. I do mean that if you can't understand why someone else might not you are.

Faith by its very nature has an irrational component. So does love. Just the way it is. Rationality describes both not at all.

Atheist, agnostic, believer, it's not going to be solved in this thread & we're not fighting a war- a good, honest debate, put forth in good faith (pardon the word) is enough.

The key to a good discussion is to start with the idea that whoever you are debating with is coming from a position of integrity and good intentions, even if you think what they believe is batshit crazy. Calling em murderers pretty much snuffs out the possibility of a real exchange of ideas, to say the least.