Any "Young Earthers" here. as in the earth is 6000 years old?

[toxikdeth]

I also believe if their is a god its not the one from the bible

[Carbuff]

Wow, theres some interesting, um, stuff in this thread.

[Big D]

So, do agnostics celebrate Christmas? I dont mean going to church and all that. Im talking the Santa, Christmas tree holiday spirit thing.

Christmas has evolved largely into a secular holiday, even religious folks tend to put more emphasis on gifts and Santa than they do on the religious aspect of it. Hypocrisy runs particularly rampant at the holidays (how many people go to church only on Christmas and Easter).

So yes I think most Agnostics (and probably many Atheists) celebrate Christmas. Same thing applies to non-religious people hiding Easter eggs for their kids even though they don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Not being religious does not mean that you can't enjoy traditions.

[VitaminG]

Later Sagan revealed that he was a Satanist.

so then Sagan at least believed in the teachings of the church, if not in god, since Satan is a boogieman construct of the church to scare folks into attended services

"If you don't eat your greens, the boogieman will get you!!" (now just switch "eat your greens" with "go to church" and "boogieman" with "devil")

[Big D]

Uh, no. Horns was kidding I think. Sagan didn't worship God, Satan, Purple People Eater, or any other deity.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. He was just one example of a prominent Agnostic that came to mind.

[Carbuff]

Christmas has evolved largely into a secular holiday, even religious folks tend to put more emphasis on gifts and Santa than they do on the religious aspect of it. Hypocrisy runs particularly rampant at the holidays (how many people go to church only on Christmas and Easter).

So yes I think most Agnostics (and probably many Atheists) celebrate Christmas. Same thing applies to non-religious people hiding Easter eggs for their kids even though they don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Not being religious does not mean that you can't enjoy traditions.

Im not exactly sure what youre saying here. Are you saying that people who claim to be religious but only go to church on easter and Christmas are hypocrites but non believers who celebrate it out of tradition are not? Or are you saying that there is hypocrisy to be found in both of these groups?

[Big D]

Im not exactly sure what youre saying here. Are you saying that people who claim to be religious but only go to church on easter and Christmas are hypocrites but non believers who celebrate it out of tradition are not? Or are you saying that there is hypocrisy to be found in both of these groups?

I was saying the holidays bring out hypocritical behavior in almost everyone. But anyway, the thread has veered off topic again (I'll take partial blame).

Back on topic - so how about this big 6,000 year old rock we live on anyway...:ROTF:

Still patiently waiting for some actual evidence that contradicts every bit of scientific discovery made in the past few hundred years about geology, biology, physics, etc. I'm genuinely curious how the data which says the earth is somewhere north of 4 billion years old, could be wrong by about, oh...99.9%.

[toxikdeth]

Hay about fuck religious discussions and treat each other properly again you can't let religion get in the way on how you treat somone

[horns666]

WE don't believe in the Christian version of Satan. He's not a deity, and doesn't physically exist. He symbolizes a philosophy of being your own god, without manufactred guilt set for by any religion or church which is based on what comes 100% natural to all humans (7 deadly sins)..

So you don't have to believe in God to be a Satanist since no such dieties exist.

Good and Evil is subjective.

Evil = the things we don't like

Good = the things we like.

[VitaminG]

so brussel sprouts truly ARE evil? See mum? I told you so!

[toxikdeth]

WE don't believe in the Christian version of Satan. He's not a deity, and doesn't physically exist. He symbolizes a philosophy of being your own god, without manufactred guilt set for by any religion or church which is based on what comes 100% natural to all humans (7 deadly sins)..

So you don't have to believe in God to be a Satanist since no such dieties exist.

Good and Evil is subjective.

Evil = the things we don't like

Good = the things we like.

So ur one of them atheistic satnist that see Satan as a symbol. I forgot his name but know this was founded by some fat guy

[Carbuff]

So ur one of them atheistic satnist that see Satan as a symbol. I forgot his name but know this was founded by some fat guy

Peter Griffin?

[toxikdeth]

Peter Griffin?

No but I do beleive he had the same build
As peter griffin

[Ben...]

WE don't believe in the Christian version of Satan. He's not a deity, and doesn't physically exist. He symbolizes a philosophy of being your own god, without manufactred guilt set for by any religion or church which is based on what comes 100% natural to all humans (7 deadly sins)..

So you don't have to believe in God to be a Satanist since no such dieties exist.

Good and Evil is subjective.

Evil = the things we don't like

Good = the things we like.

I just looked up atheistic Satanism and you sound like a LaVeyan Satanist. The description sounds spot on. Eye for an eye, self-indulgence, be kind to friends and attack enemies and be an individual. Plus that one picture of Anton LaVey has the same shaved head/facial hair setup.

[T@rgetDrone]

Having strong opinions is natural on religion and politics. It lends itself to strong expressions. It is to be expected. Both tend to head straight to the heart of our belief systems, showing and 'splaining to others why we are the way we are. Knowing that going in, it should be hard to be offended or get too upset w/anothers belief systems. Not being willing to accept that risk means not participating in such discussions at all. Personal attacks at anothers beliefs is just another way of not participating.

I became Agnostic, I suppose, at about age 10 or so. I can see that now but didn't realize it at the time. I just thought I didn't know enough to address the science/religious conflicts. 38 years later, I was right then and even more unknowing now. I still do NOT KNOW shit. I was raised Southern Methadist and Baptist. Mostly the fire and brimstone shit. I bought a lot of it verbatim. Then, about 4th grade, I was exposed (in school) to evolution. Enter the mass conflict of "facts" and confusion. I turned to the Catholics. Didn't work out. Began reading or studying translations from "original" Hebrew. Had to rely on a kind Jewish neighbor for that. I learned a lot - learned about MORE CONFLICTS. Today, I still do NOT KNOW for sure which it is. Maybe it's a bit of both. Maybe neither. I tried hard to find THE religion. No dice. Bottom line is most were written by men for men. They lied to us about Santa, the tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny. Even lied to us about modern history. I mean, even to the point of VERY modern history. I'm like WTF? I WAS THERE. THIS I DO KNOW. Point being (of agendas by men for men) WTF else you lieing about? Not too much room for strong faith built upon many lies. That is except to have strong faith that I will be lied to again.

I do believe in things beyond strictly the physical world. My life (and death) experiences have show me things I can not explain with A+B=C logic. I have "seen the other side" 3 times in my life. I will spare the details but I assure you, the trips were not by choice. Each time it was much the same, yet different. YMMV.

I believe, rather loosely, in Karma. That tendency to believe is what makes me an Agnostic by definition - it being based upon my life/death experiences. Karma can be your best trump card or your worst fuggin nightmare. Depends. I also believe in the spiritual world beyond our earthly understanding. Though some claim and even "prove" to show evidence of the other side(s) of mortal life. I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW what it is we see or why we see it. It could be as conventionally described - ghosts, spirits, angels, demons, etc. Could be brought on by the unknown and deeper powers of our own consciousness. I DUNNO. But I have witnessed too much of it to deny it's existence.

Saying what I have typed above would probably get me, or anyone else who said it, kicked right out the front door of many fundamentalist halls of worship. And that's OK too. I will let them believe what they want. They have the right of ownership and responsibility on what they perceive to be their post-mortal souls. I have a duty to look after my own.

If anyone is interested in starting a religion based primarily on sex and music, gimme a shout. I'm all in.