Audi vs Supra YOU DECIDE!!!

[jgcable]

My sons car... (he is about to start his second year in college)
1987 Toyota Supra.
Auto
111K miles
Every available option except for turbo and targa (targa not availavle ion 1987)
Rear wheel drive
Motor was completely done 5K ago.
Car runs and drives like a brand new car
It could use a paint job and some very minor bodywork
Mechanically it is 100% perfect.
$1500.00 worth of brand new custom rims and tires.
New Brakes
K&N cold air system
JDM wing and muffler
Decent Alpine radio
This is a 100% turnkey car. Just add gas. It needs NOTHING.

The POTENTIAL AUDI....
1998 A4 1.8T Quattro
127K
5spd
Fairly new Stage 2 clutch
Check engine light is on because it needs a new coil pack on the 3rd cylinder
Front corner lenses were just stolen last week.
Crossed drilled rotors all around
Synthetic oil since new
Full Borla exhaust front to back
New Starter
Clean carfax but no maintenance records from current owner who has owned the car for 1 year and 14K miles.
Dealer did a vin search and told me the tie rod ends were done.
No records to show if the timing belt and tensioner were done.
Car has a nice cosmetic dent on the passenger side rear corner. Besides that.. you would swear it was a brand new car.
I test drove it and it runs and drives beautiful.

This guy wants to do a straight up trade for my Supra. I have been trying to sell it locally with little to no luck. Lots of tire kickers and kids who want to take it out and wail on it. Last guy did yesterday and came back with all 4 calipers smoking. He is the one who wants to trade. He is a very nice guy and did everything he could to find out if the timing belt was done but had no luck.
From all I have read online and on the Audi forums.. it appears that this generation Audi in both FWD and AWD in 1.8T or 2.8 are extremely unreliable cars. I don't want to saddle my son with a new car that he won't be able to afford to fix. On the other hand.. the Supra really doesn't deserve to be a daily driver all year long. It should go to somebody who is going to take it to the next level. I did the mechanicals. Now.. somebody needs to do the cosmetics.
Frankly.. I am surprised about the reliability. All 3 of my best friends drive Audi's. One has an A8/S8 and an A6. One has a 1998 2.8 A4 Quattro that he beats the living crap out of daily and it always runs like a champ.
One of my buds has a 1987 A6 with 240K on it with no engine work ever being done. It burns about a quart every 3 weeks but besides that.. it runs and drives like a champ.
I started at $3500.00 for my Supra and I am down to $3000.00 firm. Not alot of bites. Everybody agrees its a great car and really fun to drive.. its fully documented down to every single repair but no takers.
So... what would you do?? Would you trade???

[Cleveland Metal]

Just wondering, I'm bored obviously...

You aren't just giving him YOUR supra because of....?

[Grandturk]

I'd prefer something that isn't in danger on breaking down. How about a nice Honda Civic?

[jgcable]

Just wondering, I'm bored obviously...

You aren't just giving him YOUR supra because of....?

The Supra is his car. I bought it for him for $1500.00 3 years ago when he turned 16. He has paid for all the upgrades done to the car. He drove it every day while in HS but now that he is in college we swap cars and he gets my Neon and I get his Supra for the entire school year. I drive that Supra back and forth to the train station which is 3 miles each way rain or shine and all winter long.
I want him to get a car that he can drive to school everyday so that I can drive my Neon all year. His school is only 30 minutes away and sometimes he will go back and forth twice in one day pending class schedules so he doesn't drive the Supra because of fuel costs and the fact that its a rear wheel drive car and is aweful in the snow.
I figured a Quattro Audi A4 would be a great choice. Its such a beautiful nicely equipt car. I just don't want to saddle him with a super high maintenance car. After all.. its a Quattro Turbo. With that said.. I always thought these cars were extremely dependable when properly maintained. I do most of the wrenching on our family fleet so my cars rarely if ever see a repair shop.
And another thing... 2 of my cars are Neons. I have a 1995 Dodge Neon and a 2000 Plymouth Neon. Everybody I talk to tells me that they are a piece of crap and they are surprised they are still running.
I bought the 2000 new and not a SINGLE thing has ever gone wrong with it after 105K miles. I replaced the Timing Belt, Tensioner and waterpump as a part of routine maintainance. The 1995 has 124K on it and runs like a champ too.
I can't imagine a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro could be less reliable or dependable than a Plymouth or Dodge Neon!!!

[jgcable]

I'd prefer something that isn't in danger on breaking down. How about a nice Honda Civic?

Thats the thing though... in order to get a nice Honda or Toyota or Nissan for around 3K I will have to get one with 150K+ miles on it.
I can't imagine a Honda with over 150K on it can be more reliable or dependable than an Audi with 127K on it.
Regarding repair costs.... everything is expensive to repair nowadays. I do most of the work myself. I just don't want to saddle him up to a money pit of a car with the Audi.

My mechanic buddy told me that since it has no maintainance records except for a clean carfax to tell the current owner to take it to a foregn car specialist and have it thoroughly inspected. That will cost around $100.00 and I am willing to pay for that inspection.

What do you think?

[rjohnstone]

Have the Audi gone over with a fine tooth comb. (noting the repairs that are already known to be needed of course)
If it checks out, I'd do the trade.
The A4 Quattro is a great car and 127k on a 11 year old car is nothing. (just under 12k per year)

[Jason1212]

What grade of gas do you run in the Supra? In the Audi you will have to run premium or super because of the turbo. You are right about expense but with German's there is the wait. I had a 96 Passat and I had to start it with a screw driver for a month because the key switch had to come from Germany.

[Jacksons Shred]

Thats the thing though... in order to get a nice Honda or Toyota or Nissan for around 3K I will have to get one with 150K+ miles on it.
I can't imagine a Honda with over 150K on it can be more reliable or dependable than an Audi with 127K on it.
Regarding repair costs.... everything is expensive to repair nowadays. I do most of the work myself. I just don't want to saddle him up to a money pit of a car with the Audi.

My mechanic buddy told me that since it has no maintainance records except for a clean carfax to tell the current owner to take it to a foregn car specialist and have it thoroughly inspected. That will cost around $100.00 and I am willing to pay for that inspection.

What do you think?

Um. Civics with 150k miles on it isn't shit. Those cars will run to about 300k before there is even any sign of trouble, and as long as you do regular maintenance it will run like a champ for ages.

I'm really sort of confused though, what potential do you see in the Audi? It has more miles, it sounds like the owners raped the fuck out of the car (stage 2 clutch, c'mon, don't give me that shit). When shit breaks on those Audi's, it's a lotta cash to get them fixed and shit does break on them. Really, the only advantage it has over the Supra is it being a 5 speed. The Audi sounds semi sketchy and sort of like a lemon to me.. Don't be fooled by eye candy.

Good luck though!

[Cleveland Metal]

K, gotchya on why trading in. I guess. Didn't understand trading one Supra for another.

The Quatro's Seem to be cool cars. When I ran a shop,I never saw them come in. Had TONS of Neons with blown up Transmissions tho... 3 and 4 spd autos. Then again, there are a LOT of neons out there. Just a common vehicle so you see a lot of them, not necessarily a bad car. I just won't own a chrysler anymore after working on so many electrical isses on them.

I have a 95 Honda Accord that is doing pretty good with 210k on it... Just starting to have some front end rattle that needs to be addressed. Been an amazing vehicle.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

From all I have read online and on the Audi forums.. it appears that this generation Audi in both FWD and AWD in 1.8T or 2.8 are extremely unreliable cars. I don't want to saddle my son with a new car that he won't be able to afford to fix.

I don't have any direct experience, but I too have heard from former owners that these are totally unreliable.

You would be much better off with a clean used Civic (MANUAL) even if it DID have 150K miles, so long as it wasn't owned by some Fast & Furious wannabe who constantly revved the crap out of it. Even then, probably the Honda would still be more reliable, and DEFINITELY cheaper to fix.

[jgcable]

Um. Civics with 150k miles on it isn't shit. Those cars will run to about 300k before there is even any sign of trouble, and as long as you do regular maintenance it will run like a champ for ages.

I'm really sort of confused though, what potential do you see in the Audi? It has more miles, it sounds like the owners raped the fuck out of the car (stage 2 clutch, c'mon, don't give me that shit). When shit breaks on those Audi's, it's a lotta cash to get them fixed and shit does break on them. Really, the only advantage it has over the Supra is it being a 5 speed. The Audi sounds semi sketchy and sort of like a lemon to me.. Don't be fooled by eye candy.

Good luck though!

After 30+ years of driving I can tell if a car has been raped the fuck out of. This Audi has not been abused. The only upgrades are the clutch, crossed drilled rotors and the Borla exhaust.
Its extremely clean inside.
The differences between the Supra and the Audi are these...
The Audi is 11 years newer
The Audi is a Quattro, The Supra is rear wheel drive
The Supra looks like an old sports car. It can use some body work and a paint job. The Audi looks very current and except for the damage on the passenger rear quarter it could pass as a new car.
The Supra gets about 20mpg. The Audi gets 31mpg.
I have to imagine that the Supra is going to start showing its age one of these days!! Since I rebuilt it, its been 100% dead reliable but how long can that last driving it all year around. I am also afraid its going to get stolen or vandalized. It definately stands out in a parking lot.
The Audi.. although its a really nice looking car.. looks like many other foreign cars.
Here is what I think about the "potential" of the Audi verses the Supra.
At this point.. I have been trying to sell the Supra for 3K. The only people who want these old cars are Supra enthusiasts. Normal people who want a normal dependable car pass this one by because its 22 years old regardless of how incredibly dependable it is. With that said.. I have been having little to no luck selling or trading this car.
The only guys interested are enthusiasts and they are few and far between. I don't see putting any money into the Supra because we won't see any of it on a return when we sell it. It needs extremely minor body work and a paint job. Thats about $1500.00 around here and then we are saddled to a 22 year old classic sports car with a new paint job that will be driven every day of the year and parked in every area imaginable. Not cool. One guy was all ready to trade a 1998 Acura CL 2.3 with 56K on it and he backed out because he lost his old job and needed to get a pickup truck for his new job.
This new guy with the Audi has been looking for a clean one for a while now. He had one when he was 18 and wants to get another one. He intends on doing the cosmetics on the car.
It seems to me that putting money into the Audi is more worth it. If maintained properly they are great cars. The things I worry about are the things about an Audi Quattro 1.8T Turbo that I don't know about. I have never owned a turbo car, I have never owned a quattro sports car. I have never owned an Audi. I don't want to saddle my son with a car that breaks down every month. Btw.. my son is not a speed demon or a reckless driver. He drives normally and generally takes care of his car.

[jgcable]

I don't have any direct experience, but I too have heard from former owners that these are totally unreliable.

You would be much better off with a clean used Civic (MANUAL) even if it DID have 150K miles, so long as it wasn't owned by some Fast & Furious wannabe who constantly revved the crap out of it. Even then, probably the Honda would still be more reliable, and DEFINITELY cheaper to fix.

I am going to tell the Audi owner to take the car to a foreign car shop or Audi dealer and get a full written inspection on it. It will cost aprox $100.00 but its worth it to me to check it out. Considering the Audi has a brand new Borla exhaust, the tie rod ends were done, new vented rotors, a new starter and ignition module it could be a good deal.
It still needs the following...
Front marker light lenses ($100.00 for the set of 2)
1 coil pack for the #3 cylinder ($60.00). Its a plug in.
Timing belt/tensioner/waterpump need to be inspected to see if they were replaced. If they werent thats gonna run me around $850.00 alone.
I am also worried about the Turbo. I don't know how long they last although its probably an easy replacement and a fairly easy part to get. I never had or worked on a turbo car before.

[Grandturk]

Um. Civics with 150k miles on it isn't shit. Those cars will run to about 300k before there is even any sign of trouble, and as long as you do regular maintenance it will run like a champ for ages.

I've got 140K+ on mine - other than being smacked around in a few accidents, I put in a new timing belt at 110K, new clutch at 120K and new alternator at 140K. Probably could se a new airfilter right now.

The clutch was subject to both myself and my wife learning to drive stick on it - so it was bound to give up the ghost eventually. The alternator pissed me off.

[bcrich1975]

Hi. Figured I'd chime in as someone who has worked for VW/Audi/Porsche. Stay far, far away from a '98 or '99 VW or Audi with a 1.8 engine. '00 and newer, ok. If that Audi needs major work, ie: turbo, transfer case, engine...it will far exceed the purchase price of the car. I've been in the auto business for 20+ years and work for a major wholesale auto parts distributor. I love domestic sports cars and have owned a lot of Corvette's, Z28's, Trans Am's but would never buy anything but a Honda or Toyota as a daily driver. Running a sales report on compact cars at work would indicate that the Honda Civic has the least demand for non wear item parts. Next would be the Corolla. #1 problem car is the Ford Taurus. #2 Chev Blazer. Everything falls apart on those cars. I see Dodge Neon being mentioned too. For every one of those sold, Chrysler may as well put a spare cylinder head and gasket set in the trunk! They were such crap, Chrysler (for a while-and for loyal dealer customers) would pick up the parts bill on that repair even if the car was well out of warranty because they knew every Neon they built was defective (also applies to Mitsubishi Eclipse with 2.0L Chrysler engine). I'll never forget hearing this at a manufacturer seminar (I will not say who) "We build our cars to start having major mechanical failures around 70,000 miles to keep part/service sales up and also to increase new car sales". Wonderful ethic. Glad I'm 'in the know'.

[bcrich1975]

I am going to tell the Audi owner to take the car to a foreign car shop or Audi dealer and get a full written inspection on it. It will cost aprox $100.00 but its worth it to me to check it out. Considering the Audi has a brand new Borla exhaust, the tie rod ends were done, new vented rotors, a new starter and ignition module it could be a good deal.
It still needs the following...
Front marker light lenses ($100.00 for the set of 2)
1 coil pack for the #3 cylinder ($60.00). Its a plug in.
Timing belt/tensioner/waterpump need to be inspected to see if they were replaced. If they werent thats gonna run me around $850.00 alone.
I am also worried about the Turbo. I don't know how long they last although its probably an easy replacement and a fairly easy part to get. I never had or worked on a turbo car before.

Also....you better be sitting down when you get a quote for a Turbo on one of those! Run, run away....far away from that car. Money Pit.