Newc's Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

[guitar geek]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

bow about a sticky??

Admins? I think this is worth keeping on top!

Harrald

[AfterForever]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Yeah I agree, thanks newc!

[Thor Von Clemson]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Newc- I am in the process of buying a POD. I play out of a flextone II HD head anyways... I figured maybe I could get similar tone. I understand that I am to run the POD to a compressor to the comp. My question is what the heck is a compressor? [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] I am pretty new to recording, and prior to using modelers, I just mic'd my amp. What would I need a compressor for? Thanks

Zach

[Newc]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

[ QUOTE ]

-A Compressor/Limiter: YES, you SHOULD have one. NO, you DON'T need the Compressor, you need the Limiter, but stand-alone Peak Limiters
only come in TWO varieties; the ULTRA CHEAP Radio Shack brand stuff that sucks, and the ULTRA EXPENSIVE high-grade pro-studio stuff
that you can't afford. So get an Alesis 3630. It's cheap, it's powerful, it's easy to use, and it does the job. Learn how to work it.
What you want from this device is NOT that "pnnnNOOOOOOWWWWWWWW" Compressed Jazz Guitar sound, you want it to catch the sharp "P" sounds,
as well as to subdue the extreme harsh highs and sub-sonic lows so they don't overload your recording input and make you blow the track.
I do NOT recommend trying to get away with just using a BOSS Comp/Lim pedal - it ain't the same.


[/ QUOTE ]

Newc

[jjw]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Cool topic
These days us musicians are spoiled rotten with the Music apps and plugins available on the net.
I have tried the logic plat's and cubase systems but have never liked the windows/structure of both of them
I have used Protools Lte since they started making cheap hardware(Digi001)and have to say they know what there making
The Digidesign stuff have killer mic preamps and Pro plugins that cost an arm and a leg..but sound like plugins should.
Like Newc said a limiter is a must,i never use compression on guitars as (imo)it strangles dynamics..but with vocals its a must.
I tend to use a Valve preamp plugin as a line level device to lower volumes on the master fader tracks..thats the 1st plugin in the chain
next comes the Antares tube plugin that WARMS cold digital signals..i use the blues tube and boost the volume with it till it sounds FULL
Last mastering/mixing plugin in the master fader group is the waves L2..this is an amazing limiter that boosts the track signal to pro volumes
I have done an A/B on cd projects recorded on my system with over comercial cds and was pleased to find out my cds where just as loud(i used to get lower volumes about 5 years ago but now the hardware/software is cheaper and better)
I do recomend downloading the free protools OS on digis website as it can be used for mastering finished wavs that you import over from your over sytems( you can also stick it on your laptops and master with pro plugins)
Steinbergs Wavelab is another great master program with pro plugins..in fact sonar/cubase/MOTU/Logic/ect/.ect..lol..are all realy cool..and sound killer
just for me Protools acts like a tape machine in its structure and i can go into bigger studios and export any projects i have with no messing around
these 3 songs were all done with protools,red sky was recorded into a akai dps12..then exported into the Digi Os..and overdriven guitars added then.....i think i used the protools mp3 encoder on that tune....the other 2(Funkinhell and broken time)were exported as waves into wavelab and then mp3'd with valve line levels and L2's
http://www.justinjohnwakely.com/music.php

[hammer84]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners


[ QUOTE ]

-I do not recommend software compressors, because compression is not what you need - you need Peak Limiting.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to disagree with you here. First software compressors are a god send. Nothing kills a good recording more than over compressing it.

Peak limiting is setting basicly your compression ratio to infinity.

[ QUOTE ]

The reason you want Peak Limiting is to prevent ultra highs and ultra lows (bunched distorted harmonic divebombs/pullups or bassy palm mutes, kick-and-low-tom drum riffs, double-bass passages, low-B bass notes,


[/ QUOTE ]

Peak limiting will not fix these problems, they are EQ issues and need to be notched out via parametric or tamed with a side band, frequency based compression. A low buzzy bass note is a low buzzy bass note no matter if it is loud or not.

[ QUOTE ]

and the singer's inconsistent mic proximity and volume)


[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the main uses of a compressor -cap the loud parts and boost the soft parts (even the volume). This is where software compressors come very handy. If a singer struggles to be consistent during the a certain part of the song, you can compress just that line or verse or what ever and change it over and over without re-tracking.

A Peak limiter/compressor unit (on the input) is ok for recording but I find that if your are hitting the peak over and over you will get a pumping sound from your compression.

But remember in the digital work there is NO SUCH THING AS GOOD OVERLOAD ON INPUT. If your have trouble setting your levels first turn down and try it, then maybe some light compression.

Why compress the whole signal when only one small frequency is peaking ???

I would buy a small, nice mic pre with a “soft knee’ compression setting for vocals. The BlueTube is a great unit at around $100 and a parametric eq ( there are some nice stomp box ones ) if you can’t get your freq problem under control. Most of your bad sounding “woofs” and such are technique or amp setting problems.

[Newc]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

I have to disagree with all of that. Speaking from years of first-hand experience with sound engineering, these are indisputable facts:

-Setting a Peak Limiter between the incoming instrument and the recorder's input means you get a clean take with all the dynamics to the recorder's input.
-Compression Ratios are just something else to futz with while the tape is rolling, whereas Peak Limiting will catch all the peaks that can ruin an otherwise great track.
-If your dynamics cover the whole audio spectrum (highest screams to baby-soft whispers) in one track, you have a Compositional Disorder and need to work on your Composition Skills to stay within the range of normal human hearing for the main track and add your artsy-fartsy whispers as overdubs (been there/done that with an ex-singer who wanted someone to ride the channel gain while he went from screams to whispers - it never worked, even whe HE worked the Gain knob).
-If the volume into the recorder is too low but the track is good, dump the track to the PC and boost it with a good sound editor. **As long as there's more sound than hiss** you can do it. I do it all the time, and meet (and sometimes exceed) professional-CD sound levels easily with no added distortion, and without a Compressor.
-Of course, as always, the incoming signal should be as hot as possible, just below the Clipping range, to eliminate line noise (hiss, etc); Ideally you would set your input channel's gain to peak at whatever the loudest signal in the track will be and then back off the input gain or limiter's Output 2 notches to leave room for fluctuations in the final take.
-The purpose of Studio Engineering is not to milk the hourly rate by screwing with Compression settings, EQs, and all that. The purpose is to record tracks quickly and with as little effort as possible. Peak Limiters on the inputs means you do the take right once. If it takes 5 tries to get it right, you don't wanna hafta do a 6th take just because the Compressor clipped something too much on a perfectly good track.

[ QUOTE ]

The reason you want Peak Limiting is to prevent ultra highs and ultra lows (bunched distorted harmonic divebombs/pullups or bassy palm mutes, kick-and-low-tom drum riffs, double-bass passages, low-B bass notes, etc from overloading the recorder's input.

"Peak limiting will not fix these problems, they are EQ issues and need to be notched out via parametric or tamed with a side band, frequency based compression. A low buzzy bass note is a low buzzy bass note no matter if it is loud or not."


[/ QUOTE ]

If it's coming out of the amp that way, yeah it's an EQ problem. If it's overloading the recorder's Input, then it's a Peak Limiter's job.
That's what this article is about - Recording - not playing. By the time you're ready to record you should have a pretty good grip on how to set your amp up, because whatever YOU hear coming out of your amp is exactly what EVERYONE will hear coming out of your amp.

Again, this is a Beginner's Guide, and I doubt a beginner is going to be in a studio recording someone else's stuff where they'd hafta futz with the EQ because someone's amp is burping and farting.

If you want to add compression to a recorded track just before the Master Mix to even out peaks and valleys, go ahead, but your Channel Input should only have a Peak Limiter.

And in case I didn't mention it earlier, each instrument should have its own Peak Limiter unless you're doing a 2-track stereo live full-band recording.

Newc

[hammer84]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Not to get into a pissing match here so I'll say my piece and go.

"That's what this article is about - Recording - not playing. By the time you're ready to record you should have a pretty good grip on how to set your amp up, because whatever YOU hear coming out of your amp is exactly what EVERYONE will hear coming out of your amp."

You are 100% correct, but not everybody understands that you are trying to capture what is comming from the speakers are present it to the world. Not reinvent it in the computer DAW world.

You said it was a beginner guide so I'll try to keep things simple.

READY -- CRAP IN CRAP OUT. Any producer, sound eng, etc will tell you that. You can polish a turd just not enuff to make it shine. This is were beginners get off track before they get started. So many people bring me tracks and say help me make it sound good. Yikes !!

So keeping that in mind you would want to use as little or no processor on input. Proper mics and placement for the job. Proper room acoutics, and I don't mean high dollar foam dohickeys on he wall just choosing the right place in your house can make a huge differnce and eliminate problems down the road.

I think we misunderstood each other on the part about:

"The reason you want Peak Limiting is to prevent ultra highs and ultra lows (bunched distorted harmonic divebombs/pullups or bassy palm mutes, kick-and-low-tom drum riffs, double-bass passages, low-B bass notes, etc from overloading the recorder's input.

"Peak limiting will not fix these problems, they are EQ issues and need to be notched out via parametric or tamed with a side band, frequency based compression. A low buzzy bass note is a low buzzy bass note no matter if it is loud or not."

I looked at those as frequency related problems, but after thinking on it a while I think you are refering to the added volume spikes you get from quick double hits on toms , bass drumms and fast chugging palm mutes, etc.

Yes, your are correct a peak limiter would help keep those in check.

I don't use one becuse I have found out since going to 24 bit you do not need to run your levels nearly as hot as before and this gives you that extra margin of error for those problems.

Everyone has their own techniques and recording on a computer is very different than the analog or portable studio world. I think it is much much eaiser to find problems in your recordings but that double edge sword bites you in the butt becuse you can reapply processing over and over again until you think you have just perfect. And then hours go by....................

[Newc]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Crap in=crap out - true dat, which is why I said Peak Limiter in the front of the recorder input.
I don't recommend recording everything clean (i.e. crunchy guitar rhythms going into the recorder with no crunch, which you will add later via digital plugins), as that's an advanced technique, and a beginning recordist will quickly discover that they are sloppy and it shows, and it's discouraging to say the least. There's no International Musicianship Consortium that states you have to have total technical accuracy or you have to abandon music entirely, so I won't slam anyone who is not technically accurate and does not want to pursue that. If Jennifer Batten wants to go that way, hey, she's her own woman and she's the only one whose opinion of her really matters.

Given that this is a Beginner's Guide, go ahead and set your amp/processor/POD/whatever to the final sound you want. You're not here to learn "proper recording technique", you're here to learn how to record yourself. The Intermediate and Advanced Lessons will cover patching in external FX on a previously recorded track, and prepare your for the "real BIG studio" environment. For now it's gits and shiggles, and faster means better; you want to get up and running today, not tomorrow, so for today, set your guitar rig to whatever you want it to sound like in the recording, run it into a Peak Limiter, and then into the recorder input.
You'll quickly find out that a rich Chorused tone (clean or distorted) appears to be a lot louder to the recorder than to you, which the Peak Limiter will quickly subdue to a manageable level.
Same with a Wah or intense reverb or delay. Any effect you add to your sound will appear louder to the recorder than to you.

As an aside, if you're using a POD or other external gear (rack preamp units, etc), these usually contain Compressors at the front of the signal chain. Even if you're using an amp and pedals and have a Compressor at the front of the chain, that's fine.
That's why my point was that you, the Beginning Recordist, do not need a Compressor on the recorder's Input.

No harm in expressing personal views and opinions - that's what makes us individuals, and it's called "contributing" [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Newc

[Ninja Guitar]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

From my experience, if you're starting out with a stand alone multitrack unit like a 4-track cassette recorder, and you're micing an amp that has even a little bit of hum, you'll want a gate. The cool thing about Pro Tools and other recording software is that you can just highlight the recorded noise when you aren't playing and just click delete. Same thing that a gate does, only you don't need a gate. However, if you use stand alone multitracks, you're stuck.

I myself use an MT50 4-track cassette recorder. I love it. I see these things on and other discontinued multitracks up on Ebay all the time for cheap. I recommend them, but be warned, analog recording equipment requires maintainence, and it's a bit annoying. The tape drives have to be properly cleaned with special swabs and solution, and the metal parts have to be demagnitized. Also, you need high quality tapes, which can get expensive, especially if you use a reel-to-reel unit like half inch tape or (gulp) two inch tape. You'll also need to learn how to organize these tapes. I'm in a bind right now with tapes everwhere in my room, and I have no idea what's what.

[PoisonGodmachine]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Do you need an outboard limiter like the alesis one if your using like a digital eight track recorder. or is that crap already built into the unit

[Newc]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Some might, some might not. You'd hafta go by each machine's specs.
Some might do it automatically, some might have it as an internal effect that you have to assign to an input.

I would get an outboard unit simply because you do get a better sound when everything's separated, and you have more tweaking options than an automatic one that may only have one unchangeable setting.

[PoisonGodmachine]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

thanks newc, you did a great job on this entire Post

[Newc]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Thankyuh - Thankyuh verah much [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Bob From Accounting]

Re: Newc\'s Home Recording Handbook - Lvl 1- Beginners

Great post!!

What I'm always having trouble with is the connection to the computer. when i connect my v-amp to the line in of my soundblaster live card, it's something wrong with connection on the soundcard and you can wiggle the cable up and down but it either only sounds from the left or the right speaker, after some wiggeling it usually works but last time after 10 mins i gave up. it only connects to one side of the "receiver" inside.

There must be som better cables for this ?
a guitar cable + the 1/8 addaptor is too long and weighs too much, it screws up the soundcard connectors inside

Ps does anyone know how you direct record to the computer with a HD147 ?