1:30 sample of our upcoming release inside!

[RobRR]

Alright so here it is... the beginning 1:30 of the new song. I need your input and opinions! Be honest too damnit!

Especially looking for opinions on the mixing, sound quality and levels. Beings this is my first time recording/producing/mixing a full song, its not perfect.

Notes: This is unmastered. Basically just a quick mixdown of the first 1:30 of all the tracks. Vocal wise, Im not extremely happy with them, Ill probably have him redo them at the end once Ive got the rest of the song ready to go. I wrote the drum line on a program (Beatcraft RULES!)... its not the best but it works for now. Everyting was written, performed and recorded by me except the vocals. All guitars and bass and vocals run through a Line 6 TonePort UX2... no tube amps were harmed in the making of this song.

http://maidenworld.com/R_J_Lean.mp3
2.08MB, 1:31 192k mp3

Enjoy!

[RacerX]

Sounds good here (I don't have mixing knowledge so no critiques from me on that end).

[RobRR]

Critique the song then!

[RacerX]

I have none! Sounds pro to me, dude. OK, the vox is a little weak & muddy in the mix, but you already said you're redoing that later. And I like the growling part of the vox better (reminds me of Cradle of Filth), so I'd want the vox to sound that way all the way through, but hey it's your band not mine The drums sound great, I wouldn't have guessed that was software.

[levantin]

Congrats, sounding good! I wish I could say the same for my first attempt at recording. Here are my thoughts;

The good:
I love the lead at the beginning - really fluid sounds great! The song composition I like as well. Fast and hard. I think you need to either beef up the kick or turn it up a little. Other than that, the drums and the mix sound good IMHO.

The bad:
You need more bass frequencies in the mix. I would try turning up the bass and/or boosting the 20-100 Hz range on the rhythm guitars. It might be the headphones I have here though. Anyhow, no biggie as it can be cleaned up during the mastering phase. What monitors are you using?

The ugly:
Redo the vocals. They need more dynamics, more clarity and a precise delivery.

Oh and of course, it needs more cowbell
(sorry, I couldn't resist)

[texasfury]

.

[RobRR]

No monitors being used... just my Logitech computer speaker system with a small sub.

As for the drums... gonna work on them a bit more, maybe lower the level of the open hihat. The bass I have to redo, didnt really get strong enough levels on the first take but it worked for now.

The beginning is 4 harmonic tracks... Im really happy with they way that came out. Not too big on the squeal though, couldnt get enough sustain to carry it out for some reason. Vocals will definetly be redone, hopefully in key and on time this time.

Im going to run all the tracks through a compressor and see what I can come up with... from what Ive been reading that will help get the levels up a bit higher and clearer.

[Adam]

100% honesty time. Don't take what I'm about to say as negative criticism - this is me having enough respect for you to tell you what I really think. There are a number of things I would work on - some small, some bigger, some are just personal preference, and I'm not a paid engineer or producer so take it with a grain of salt.

1. First of all, it's good overall. The riffs are cool and it's played well - the composition flows pretty well too. Nice work!
2. In the very beginning, I would bring in the slow lead part at the same time as the rhythm guitars and everything else. It sounds weird fading in like that.
3. The bass is mixed very low. It's too quiet. If you're having problems bringing it up to audible levels without messing up the rest of your mix, I would advise pulling out some of the "boomier" frequencies - probably take 70-80hz down by 3db or so and see if it gives some more room for the bassdrum. Then you'll be able to turn the bass up louder in the mix without eating other instruments.
4. The hihats and crash cymbal are way toooo loud and the snare is a little too quiet. The bassdrum sounds OK though. That snare should be the peak in your mixdown waveform, and I'll bet right now it's either the bassdrum or hihat.
5. You need to have those vocals re-tracked. They go out of time in a couple places, and this is only the first 1:30 of the song! Use a mic shield this time, too. Some of his "P" sounds are either popping the mic or are causing the input to clip.
6. Also, your singer seems like he's having some problems finding the right pitch. You already know whether or not this is a real problem with him or he was having a bad day when he recorded this, but one of two things need to happen when you re-do the vox: either get him to sing in key or make him do it more "screamy / growly" to the point where pitch is moot.
7. The vocals also sound really muffled and dark. I don't know if you're trying to compensate for sibilance or what, but they need about a 1-3db boost around 1-2.5khz and probably another 0.5-1db boost at around 5khz. That should brighten them up. If this creates some sibilance problems, use a parametric EQ to very narrowly notch-out the specific frequency causing the problem.
8. I generally like more stereo separation than you've got here, but that can probably be taken care of later in mastering.
9. In that second verse right before your clip ends, you should throw a quick guitar solo or lead in there!

That's about it! I know it seems like a lot, but with re-tracking the vocals and tweaking your mix, you're probably looking at only a couple more hours of work and the improvements will be well worth it.

You're off to a really good start with this and none of the issues are unfixable. The song is cool, too. Have fun, and good luck! Post the whole song when you're done!

[RobRR]

Adam, thats EXACTLY what I was looking for, thanks a bunch man! Now on to the questions:

When you guys say add boost at such frequency... Im almost positive its eq your talking about, but just double checking. I didnt compensate the vocals at all... theyre pretty much dry right off the mic. And Im definetly going to pickup a mic shield. As for the vocals, the right pitch was a problem... we did the take a couple times but thats the best I could get. I REALLY hope he can get the pitch right... I see it all too many times where a song is GREAT only to be ruined by the vocals.... I dont want this to happen.

Drums wise, Im going to go back in and play with the levels. Lower the hihat and crash, and bump up the snare just a tad. Im actually going to try and do the drums and cymbals on seperate tracks, I think that may help out a bit. Overall though, Im pretty pleased with the drum sound. As texasfury said, going to play with the hits of everything to try and make it sound a bit more organic... but Im only going to go so far with it.

Bass... was a problem. Just getting the right tone was a pain in the ass. Do I want the bass more bright and defined or lowkey and punchy? The bass track was at a very low uv level so Ive got to redo that anyway.

I cant get the song any louder without clipping... which was why I was thinking of running some of the tracks through a compressor a bit. Any thoughts and tips on that?

Stereo wise, I actually tried to use that to my advantage. The two rhythms are split to about 80% each side, pan to each side and youll be able to hear the tone differences. The 4 part harmony is 90%L, 60%L, 60%R, 90%R. The drum track WAS also stereo, but I decided to flatten it to mono... when I redo it, I can leave it stereo... any tips on which hits to pan to which side and which to leave centered? Also the chorus parts are split as im sure you can tell.

Oh and solos are DEFINETLY planned! Just havent laid any down yet, and that is going to take a while. Combine me not being a monster player, and a perfectionist to boot, its going to take me ALOT of time to get something that Im really happy with.

[texasfury]

.

[RobRR]

Wow! I was messing around with the 3 band compressor on the two rhythm tracks... it worked great, I think Ive somewhat got the hang of it! I was able to up the volume of the tracks without any clipping or artificial sounds. I was also able to brighten and clean up the vocals too. Now Ive got to apply this to everything and I think I can bring it up to industry standard volumes.

[Adam]

Adam, thats EXACTLY what I was looking for, thanks a bunch man! Now on to the questions:

Great! I'm glad I could help. I've got a little experience at mixing my own and my band's stuff, so I'm always more than happy to share what I've learned.

When you guys say add boost at such frequency... Im almost positive its eq your talking about, but just double checking.

Yes, we're talking about EQ. The important thing to remember with EQ is that it should be pretty subtle. You're not trying to re-craft your recorded sounds with it - just use it to fix any problems. Also, take small steps when making EQ adjustments and try to "reality check" yourself often by cleaning your ears with professionally recorded music. That will keep you from getting ear fatigue and coming back the next day going "WTF was I thinking??"

I didnt compensate the vocals at all... theyre pretty much dry right off the mic. And Im definetly going to pickup a mic shield. As for the vocals, the right pitch was a problem... we did the take a couple times but thats the best I could get. I REALLY hope he can get the pitch right... I see it all too many times where a song is GREAT only to be ruined by the vocals.... I dont want this to happen.

Follow the EQ advice I gave you and see if that doesn't liven them up a bit. Also, running a little compression on vocals is usually a good idea, though your mix didn't sound like it needed very much there. Also, if you have a condenser microphone, use that for vocals. One thing - condenser mics (usually) need phantom power from the board, so if you're using one and getting little or no input from it, look for a phantom power switch on your mixer.

As for your singer's pitch problems - if he doesn't have good pitch, you've got to make him scream / growl on the parts where he's not getting it right. He may not want to do this, but the truth is that a recording with out-of-key vocals is not worth having. It's a waste of time because it's not going to do anything for you. That's pretty key.

Drums wise, Im going to go back in and play with the levels. Lower the hihat and crash, and bump up the snare just a tad. Im actually going to try and do the drums and cymbals on seperate tracks, I think that may help out a bit. Overall though, Im pretty pleased with the drum sound. As texasfury said, going to play with the hits of everything to try and make it sound a bit more organic... but Im only going to go so far with it.

Seperate tracks is a good idea. In fact, you might want to consider having seperate tracks for snare, kick, cymbals, hihats, and toms. Since you're using programmed drums this is much easier to work with, because they won't need compression or much EQ (if any). Just set your levels to where they sound good and run with it.

Bass... was a problem. Just getting the right tone was a pain in the ass. Do I want the bass more bright and defined or lowkey and punchy? The bass track was at a very low uv level so Ive got to redo that anyway.

A stronger level will help get your a better sound. I think you can have any bass tone you want in this mix as long as you pull out some frequencies to give your bassdrum some room. Remember, your kick is the lowest of the low. You should be able to pull out the frequencies of your bass guitar beyond a certain point (say around 50hz?) entirely and not really hurt the bass tone, but it will give the thump of the kick tons of room in the mix.

I cant get the song any louder without clipping... which was why I was thinking of running some of the tracks through a compressor a
bit. Any thoughts and tips on that?

At this stage (mixing) you're not really trying to get the volume of your mix up. You said yourself that it's unmastered - that's fine. Bringing up the volume, final compression, adding a little final EQ tweaks, etc. is what mastering is for. What you're trying to do now is get the best-sounding mix between instruments as you can.

Stereo wise, I actually tried to use that to my advantage. The two rhythms are split to about 80% each side, pan to each side and youll be able to hear the tone differences. The 4 part harmony is 90%L, 60%L, 60%R, 90%R. The drum track WAS also stereo, but I decided to flatten it to mono... when I redo it, I can leave it stereo... any tips on which hits to pan to which side and which to leave centered? Also the chorus parts are split as im sure you can tell.

The guitars are set fine - they sound pretty good! But - you definitely want your drums in stereo!! That's very important! Think of your drums like they're set up as a kit being played by a drummer facing you.

The kick is centered in front of you
the snare is centered in front of you
the hihat is slightly to to right (10-15%)
The toms from hi to low are panned out (four toms: 60% R, 30% R, 30% L, 60% L)
Crash 1 is on the left (50% or so)
Crash 2 is on the right (55%)
the ride is on the left (somewhere between 15 and 50%)

Those settings are pretty conservative - you can get more spread if you want, but that should work. Also, the stuff panned closer to center is going to be louder because it's coming through both the left and right channels, so you'll have to adjust your volumes a bit.

Anyway that's about all I can think of right now. If you have any more questions or run into problems please don't hesitate to ask. I'm happy to help - PM me if you want to.

[RobRR]

Ok I worked with the drums a little more and got the balance and levels alot better.

Also working with the EQ and compressor is making a nice difference volume wise. Another question though...

How do you know what frequencys each track uses? Not sure if Im asking this right... but you said to cut the bass at around 50hz for the kick drum. Is there a frequency mapper or something, or is it just something you do by ear?

[jgcable]

Thanks for the post.
Here is my critique:
The drums sound like a drum machine.
The bass is way too low in the mix.
The vocals are a little off time in parts and uninspiring but not half bad.
The intro to the song is a little too long.
Sounds totally like mid 80's metal to me.
It sounds good for an early attempt but to me.... AND REMEMBER... this is MY opinion...the song sounds like a thousand other original bands songs I heard in the 80's. The cool thing is that you wrote it in 2006!

[RobRR]

Yeah the drums are only gonna be so good with the machine... bass Ill be brinigng up... singer... well, I dunno lol.

One thing I definatly dont feel is the 80's vibe from it at all... if you want 80's, you should hear some of my other shit!

Actually, could you list me some bands that it might sound like? Im always looking for stuff I havent heard!! Especially if I sound like em!