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**charvelguy** · 05-11-2007, 10:00 PM

On the whole, I liked it. I gave it a spin a few times. To me, its different to hear a song take so many directions in a short time. Its laid out like a musical novel. Some of the transistions seemed a like.."ok, I'm going to the next chapter in the story now."

Musically, there's some meter changes going on. Intentional? Instrumentally, you guys are solid players... you play some intricate and not overly beaten to death lines. Good dynamics and melodic content. The lead in to the solo was nice for Breed.. had a short build, nice playing and control. It's ripping short and your out. I'm really not up on alot of todays bands.. so forgive the correlation yet again to being Dream Theatrish in places. Harmonies might add contrast and depth even if they are done briefly. I noticed you had them on your other songs.

Even with the lack of 'high fidelity' recording.. this came out well and you can hear well enough whats going on in detail enough that it comes across in having marketability to it. On the whole.. I was finding it listenable.

I listened to the other songs..empty Sunday was my least fav out of the three.

**tseegert** · 05-13-2007, 08:03 AM

Thanks for taking the time to listen. As you have pointed out, we are all kind of big DT fans. We like to play complex music, without coming off like we're trying to actually "be" them. Which, would be very tough in the first place

I'm actually the guy who prefers to use harmonies less than the other guitarist. It just seems so prevailant in modern metal. It's odd how we write together, as he is a big time "swedish metal" fan, myself being more of a TOOL, DT kinda-guy, so you can imagine what we try to work thru when we are putting pieces together. It can make for some intersting transitions.

The only thing I'm really dissatisfied with on the recording, are the drums, more specifically the snare. We tried for hours and hours with different mic placement, tunings, etc and that is the absolute best we could come up with, sadly. I came to the conclusion that his snare just isnt made for hard rock... its a 5 1/2 snare... more fit for a marching band. I prefer the "POW" instead of the "CRACK"!

Again, thanks for the listen. We seem to get better each time we record, but being the sticklers for perfection that we are (most of the time) I think we would be best served ponying up for a real studio.

We'll have another song up soon, with updated mic's and such, I'll post here for mebbe a lil compare and contrast.

**charvelguy** · 05-13-2007, 01:25 PM

I agree that you guys are putting your own slant on your listening influences. To me, there's a mixing up that it balances. I'm just sitting here listening and its far easier to to pick apart things as I listen. You've gone through the writing and thought process of what you want to portray. I'm more or less doing the American Idol benchwork process.
I can hear some Megadeth and Metallica influences to a degree too. The break before the solo in Experiate, definitely has a Megadeth influence..(like RIP era) ..but don't get me wrong..I'm trying to be a 'friendly' critic. I like it, its a cool riff, I would use it too.
I think you are writing some good ideas out and moving in a positive direction and you know where you want to go with it and you'll find it more and more.

Again, I listened to Empty Sunday and it has that old scorps 'Holiday' meets Metallica sleepy first half, the dissonant part coming from the 5150 side gives a 'disturbed' vibe..maybe its the mix I'm not liking on that, but the last part of it rocks and has some 'Toolish' influence vibe to it, whereas I mean in part, Tool using breaks to let the dynamics and music/lyrics 'breathe'.
I listened to this on a couple different audio systems. Its a MP3 player on a computer but I think I can put myself in a place as to how it would sound live. I thought the Vetta and 5150 contrast each other quite well.

Another thing, and I'm not one who listens to lyrical content as a judge of a tune or band..at times, I could not understand what was being sung lyrically. A better production might improve that.. thats just how it struck me.

In all honesty, you are your own best judges when you listen to what you create.
I'm just throwing out a few objective views. You can take it with a grain of salt.

**tseegert** · 05-13-2007, 05:46 PM

In all honesty, anyone who doesnt listen to "anonymous" (internet) input/reviews is a person blinded to reason. I find them to be quite insightful most times, as the person doing the review has no obligation to tell a person what they want to hear.

That being said, I hope most people that hear our tunes are as accepting/critical as yourself. Those are the people that count in my book

**demeyes** · 05-15-2007, 04:06 PM

I liked it. It had a very very big Tool vibe to it, especially the vocals. I really like the guitar part towards the end, the fast picking section.
As for recording, you are probably right about the snare, its very pingy and sharp. Also I found the whole thing very trebly, its kind of tinny sounding in general, the whole recording would sound better to me if there was more low end meat to it. The guitars and other drums could do with being brought up a bit and maybe the vocals down the slightest.
Its not bad at all though, especially considering you did it yourselves. Keep up with it.

**jgcable** · 05-15-2007, 10:09 PM

I think it has an Opeth type feel to it. The drums sound too acoustic. Its just a recording /mastering thing.

I like it. Breed is a very cool song. Break out the bong.

**tseegert** · 05-17-2007, 08:55 AM

Thanks for the listens guys. We really are trying to be as original as possible... which as you know in this day and age is nearly impossible to do.

We've decided to start re-recording all of these tunes, and some new ones as well... since we have written 3 new songs since wrapping this one up. We've also learned a ton from the last experience. Best advice I can possibly give from all of these home sessions: TAKE your time on the drum sound. Make completely sure you have what you want. When you're absolutely sure they sound good, check them again... twice.

Also, if anyone has any mic'ing tips for drums, I would be glad to hear them. As it stands, we use two large diaphragm condensors for overheads, and 58's/knockoffs for the rest.

I'm aware of phasing, but I'm still doing something wrong I think when it comes to placement/angles. I'm having a very hard time getting a nice strong presence (not signal, just a strong sounding drum overall) aside from the kick, which is pretty easy to mic and get a decent sound.

Share your stories!

**jgcable** · 05-17-2007, 10:02 PM

What we do is mic the drums normally but we also put triggers on all of them and we blend sampled drums with the real ones. Its also mucho important to have a good house do the mastering.

**charvelguy** · 05-18-2007, 09:02 AM

Have you tried researching the net? I was looking about last week as I plan to do some recording with a bud of mine in Florida who owns a studio and we were discussing this very topic.. but it was more live drums as opposed to (or vs/) software based applications in demos.

Anyways.. there were sections of this article which discussed mic placement and phased sounds.

http://www.kellyindustries.com/articles/tips_on_recording_a_drumset.html

There were a few more good ones I came across too.. I think it was in Electronic Musicians archived articles.

The type of mics could very well have a influence on why you are not getting the drum sounds you want. A 58 is pretty much a 57 tho.. the 57 should be able to get you decent drum sound range.

**demeyes** · 05-18-2007, 02:56 PM

One thing I would say about recording drums that might seem obvious is to make sure they sound good in the first place. You can't polish a turd. We normally use 2 Condensers for overheads and then just throw enough mics around to pick up everything. We did a few rough recording similar to what you've done and each time it sounds a bit better so I'd say you're next attempt will be better.

**tseegert** · 05-19-2007, 05:55 AM

lmao, its funny you should use the "turd" phrase. I use that when talking to my drummer about recording like its some kind of religious rite.

I've done a lot of research on the subject, and even have taken a few recording classes at the University of Toledo. The problem is there are tricks that only experience can teach... those are what I'm lookin for

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