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**Trussrod** · 12-04-2010, 12:26 AM

I've noticed this, too. When you use the same muscles for hours every day you damage them. When they finally have a chance to recover they come back stronger and more agile than before. It would be nice to find a balance between the two, but it's not easy.

**Trem** · 12-04-2010, 01:46 AM

I took about 11 years off, and i used to practice around 5 - 6 hours a day on average for about 6 years, i was self taught and for the first years i didn't really learn some of the things like effective alternate picking at first so i was just trying to replicate what i heard without proper technique. Eventually i started to learn the right way to do things, but having done it the wrong way for so long it was hard to "relearn" everything. Eventually i hit a wall and felt like all that time was wasted prior and had to reteach myself everything again. It became frustrating and eventually i quit playing altogether, just thought it was time to do other things in life.
So i quite for about 11 years and one day found this forum seeing everyones cool jacksons lit a fire again and just decided to look at guitars again and got rehooked.
When i started playing again i couldn't even play a pentatonic scale worth a shit. However realizing how much i missed playing it came back kinda quickly and this time i started with proper technique and a bit better perspective on it, in a lot of ways it was a good thing. Maybe i didn't have to wait so long, wish i hadn't, but now i am better player in a shorter time for sure overall. I've lost some of the tricks and tapping stuff i used to be able to do (that made me seem like a better player than i was) but am on a better foundation now. I haven't hit any brick walls so far and everytime i play or practice i am finding things just naturally popping out that i wouldn't have been able to think of doing let alone being inspirational accidents. I think it was for the better.

Also i am far less interested in speed and constant shredding of all the guys i idolized before (it's never going to happen) plus i don't think musically like that naturally,
once i realized that and started to go with what is more natural for me a burden was lifted of trying to shred a million miles an hour constantly, it's actually kind of boring to me now, though i throw kudos to those who have mastered it, cause i know it's not easy, but it's like, ok so play something that's not a 32nd note rehash pattern you sat and metronomed hours on end, say something.

**MakeAJazzNoiseHere** · 12-04-2010, 10:31 AM

I have noticed this, too. I took a long layoff from regular playing, lost my callouses. Still, after 20 minutes or a half an hour, I was playing just like before; although my fingertips hurt a hell of a lot more.

A couple of years ago I started playing regularly again and I quickly got back to 90% of my old skill level. A couple of things I couldn't do (sweep picking accurately) that I had to specifically work on but there are things I can play now that I remember struggling with a long time ago.

These days I don't get to play every day, and STILL, if I don't play for a day or two it seems like I come back better/stronger faster than before.

Plus, I play by feel a lot and I've noticed if I get in the mindset I "have to practice" or I should play to "keep my chops up" that it becomes pretty lifeless and boring. But in a couple of days I'll really feel like it and then it's fun and the fact I'm enjoying playing really shows in my playing.

Anyway, yeah, not practicing every day, not such a bad idea.

**Pointy** · 12-04-2010, 10:52 AM

I have noticed that too. Back when i used to practice daily (no more than two hours though) i had noticed that whenever i had to take a few days off, things i was learning seemed easier after that. I made a point to avoid serious practice during the weekends and just play. I don't know how much difference that made for my playing skill, but i certainly enjoyed playing more than before!

**Total_Annihilation** · 12-04-2010, 02:17 PM

Cool points guys, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this or that it's not just my imagination. Truss, I like your point about muscle "damage" and recovery. Sounds a lot like lifting weights with tearing muscles and then recovery being where strength and stamina is gained.

I guess for me, once I hit about 4 years of playing and got really serious, I was scared to take days off. Before I was born, my dad started playing around roughly 1988 or 1989 and I remember him playing up until I was about 4 years old. However, once 1994 hit and grunge began dominating the airwaves, he lost interest in playing and didn't pick up a guitar again until 2003. In short, he was nowhere near the same player he was back in the day and he more or less gave playing again and has maybe only touched a guitar roughly 15-20 times in the last 7 years. So I guess in that sense, that's why I've been scared to take extended periods of time off since 2008...

But all of your opinions and ideas are very re-assuring to me. Of course, I surprisingly enjoy practicing 4-5 hrs a day so I'm still going to do it as long as time allows, but I guess it's easier to stomach having to step away from the guitar for a semi-extended period of time if I know that in some ways it might even make me a little better because of recovery factors, muscle memory, etc...

**MakeAJazzNoiseHere** · 12-04-2010, 03:17 PM

If it's in your heart, you will pick it back up again. Don't worry about putting it down for a little while.

**Trussrod** · 12-04-2010, 05:48 PM

I quit for over 20 years and rarely played more than five minutes a month during that time. Oddly enough some things continued to improve--my understanding of the fret board as well as harmony and melody. IMO four hours of practice/day is unsustainable. You might have less time after you enter the work world and/or have a family. My advice is to learn music theory--especially jazz improv theory--because you can continue to grow musically without a lot of technique. Even when my technique is poor due to lack of practice no one thinks I'm a novice once I start playing progressions with dom 13th and flat five chords. You'll need a good understanding of modal theory to play a solo against these types of chords and it's well worth the effort as long as you learn to apply it.

**Total_Annihilation** · 12-06-2010, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Trussrod View Post

I quit for over 20 years and rarely played more than five minutes a month during that time. Oddly enough some things continued to improve--my understanding of the fret board as well as harmony and melody. IMO four hours of practice/day is unsustainable. You might have less time after you enter the work world and/or have a family. My advice is to learn music theory--especially jazz improv theory--because you can continue to grow musically without a lot of technique. Even when my technique is poor due to lack of practice no one thinks I'm a novice once I start playing progressions with dom 13th and flat five chords. You'll need a good understanding of modal theory to play a solo against these types of chords and it's well worth the effort as long as you learn to apply it.

Getting a degree has always been a must for me so I have something to turn to if I can't make it in the music industry. After I graduate in 2012, I'm either going to get a band together and try and get signed, try to join a semi-established band that may or may not be signed, or even try to get signed on some sort of solo project effort with just myself playing all instruments and/or singing.

However, the chances of making it in the music industry under any of those circumstances are pretty small so probably within a year or so of trying to get signed and eventually not making it, I'll probably revert to the working world and that's when my practice time will be gone like you said. So I think you are definitely correct that 4 hrs or so a day won't be sustainable by a certain point in time for me. I appreciate the advice on theory and jazz improv. I'll definitely keep that in mind as I keep learning more as time goes by. Thanks!

**Trem** · 12-06-2010, 02:39 PM

I think the best bet for "making it" or otherwise making a living off being a musician lies in being as versatile as possible. In other words, instead of only trying to be a metal god or otherwise as we all dream of being when were younger. Instead becoming a well rounded musician encompassing all aspects of music. Yes that means country and rap

Commercial jingles, soundtracks ect. In that way while your trying to "make it" with your band or whatever you still have the opportunity to constantly work and put food on the table as well as network. I think that is the biggest factor in making it in any business is to network and constantly have your name floating around out there. While doing this can only help your chops and musicianship in general.

But you know when your younger your like, all i want to play
is ____ kind of music everything else is crap or sell out ect ect, and looking back you wish when you were younger you saw the "light" as it were instead of being so closed minded.

**javert** · 12-07-2010, 01:39 PM

Interesting thread in many ways. I too quit for some ten years. I quit when, late in high school, I realized I couldn't progress like I wanted and still do well in school - I too wanted an education rather than relying on silly dreams of guitar greatness. After finishing my Ph.D., I all of sudden felt the urge to start playing again - it's like I was missing something in my life. And I was really serious about practicing for about two or three years. At first, it felt like I had to learn everything from scratch again, yet it came back fairly quickly. One thing I noticed is that I was way more disciplined about practicing as an adult that I ever were when I was a kid or a teenager, and I think my technique improved way upon what it had ever been back then - actually, I didn't play metal back then but stuff like Robben Ford - I only started playing metal because I set myself the goal of learning to play that music. But I eventually got bored with just practicing technique and playing songs and started looking for a band - something that proved difficult. Then my son was born and I was occupied with work. Fast forward to this fall and I finally started playing with other people again. After basically not having practiced much at all since my son was born, mostly just noodling, I was suprised to see that in many ways, I was much better now. Seems like my mind and my muscles had caught up with the things I had been practicing, like you experienced. On a related note, I work in audio processing research, and most of the people there are people who have an interest in music, i.e., people who wanted to be musicians but realized it was too risky and took the safer route as professors

**javert** · 12-07-2010, 01:41 PM

Oh, and in you were wondering, there aren't any groupies at scientific conferences :ROTF:

**Total_Annihilation** · 12-08-2010, 02:00 PM

Cool story javert. I'm glad to hear that you got back into playing and have enjoyed it since.

I will say that in all honesty, if it were up to me, I definitely would not be in school right now for a business degree and I would be trying to gut it out for a career in music. My brother has tried to discourage me by saying, "well, you'll be starving for a long time before you make it, blah, blah, blah..." and my parents have basically said the same. I have told all of them that I am aware of the sacrifices that would have to be made and that I would be totally willing to make almost each and every last one necessary in order to do what I want to do in life. However, the only exception in sacrifices would be that I'm not willing to cut off communication with my family simply because they don't support what I want to do in life. I am pretty much convinced that this would be the only way that I could try to focus on music almost completely in life. I'd have to act on my own, move relatively far away, get a job, live completely on my own and pretty much isolate myself from mom, dad, and my brother because they would try to intervene and stop me from "failing" (in their own words). But I just don't think I can do that just due to the turmoil that it would cause as a whole...

But I don't want to make it out to be worse than it is, because I do realize that life changes, things change, and we never know where we will end up in life and that anything can happen to anyone at any given time and that maybe in the end, I'll look back and realize that I was lucky to have done the things I was able to do with a college education, decent job, etc...

**javert** · 12-09-2010, 01:33 AM

Difficult choices... My sister basically never got an education because she wouldn't compromise on her aspirations. She wanted to ride and breed horses profesionally. I kept telling her that she could get a perfectly fine 8 to 4 job and then spend the rest of the day on what she loves. Now she's 30 and is basically living in a trailer, but she is making a bit of money off what she loves, and she never complains. In some ways, you have to admire her for sticking to it, but I woulnd't want to live like that. I think the most important thing to consider is whether you are really ready to do what it takes and sacrifice what must be sacrificed. In many ways, it's like chosing to become a professional athlete: you can't stay away from practice because it's grandma's birthday (or your own kid's for that matter), there can be no days off, and there's no doing it half-way if you want to be successful.

**javert** · 12-09-2010, 02:09 AM

One more thing to consider: if you finish your degree, you'll have it for the rest of your life, and nobody can take it away, even if you're out of the game for a long time pursuing your dreams. It's tremendously difficult to go back to school later in life, though, for various reasons, and only few people manage.

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