tremolo picking on e string

[vector]

My picking technique has always been neanderthal-esque for me- primitive and without refinement or real skill However, my tremolo picking was always half decent. Until... 4 or so years ago I decided, "Fuck it! I'm gonna get better with the picking and I practiced to be more precise and expressive with my picking. I will say it has definitely improved but not to the extent that I'd hold it up for anyone to critique- but it's better. Oddly enough, my tremolo picking has suffered as a result- not so much on other strings but on the low e in particular. It drives me nucking futs! Anyone else run into this?

One change in my picks could be a possible reason- I went from medium Fenders to Grave Pickers (yeah, I know- kinda cheesy but I like them actually) to Dunlop Jazz III's which are hard as nails, smaller and have sharper tips. They are not very forgiving but I started using them as a way of forcing my right hand to be a little more precise.

So, any suggestions in addition to woodshedding for hours trying to bring it back to speed?

[Hellbat]

The extra give in the Fender mediums is probably what made it easier. With a thick jazz pick you are pushing the string more out of the way instead of the pick bending over the top and flicking off. Try picking a little more shallow when trem picking than you do with the chugga chugga stuff. Also when tremolo picking the closer you pick to the neck the easier it will be as the string has it's most 'give' towards the middle.

[vector]

The extra give in the Fender mediums is probably what made it easier. With a thick jazz pick you are pushing the string more out of the way instead of the pick bending over the top and flicking off. Try picking a little more shallow when trem picking than you do with the chugga chugga stuff. Also when tremolo picking the closer you pick to the neck the easier it will be as the string has it's most 'give' towards the middle.

Makes sense. I had already more or less figured that out but was looking for technique adaptations to compensate for the less flexible characteristic of the Jazz's. I've tried choking up on the pick to make the pick depth a tad shallower when it strikes the strings. Moving towards the neck is a great suggestions. I'll try that, too. Thanks!

[Hellbat]

You could also try the Dava picks. They make their picks with a flexible section in the center. If you want a thinner feeling pick hold it close to the top. If you want thicker feel just grab it past the middle.

http://www.davapick.com/

I bough a sample pack at a local music store and quite liked a couple of them. The nickle tipped one gives you crazy pick harmonics.

[Twitch]

I use the small jazz pointies. In addition to choking up on an already short pick, I also angle the pick a bit so the string somewhat follows the edges of the pick causing the string to more smoothly move from one side of the pick to the other, if that makes sense.

[vector]

You mean turn the pick more or less a 90 degree angle to the string? Hmm. Sounds like carpal tunnel syndrome in the making-lol!!

[Twitch]

angle of pick as seen if my hand were invisible

Pick above the string

Pick below the string

Better shot of thumb and index finger orientation.


Not quite 90, or way more, depends on which side youre starting the reading from. Anyhow this can be accomplished without contortion. Notice how my index finger is straight with a little forward bend at the last joint int the last pic.

So similar to the thinner pick giving up to the string, you give the string a smooth path to follow over the harder pick.

[Json]

I use the small jazz pointies. In addition to choking up on an already short pick, I also angle the pick a bit so the string somewhat follows the edges of the pick causing the string to more smoothly move from one side of the pick to the other, if that makes sense.

Paul Gilbert explains this approach to picking really well, there are some videos on youtube.

[Grim]

You mean turn the pick more or less a 90 degree angle to the string? Hmm. Sounds like carpal tunnel syndrome in the making-lol!!

Not 90 degrees, but you do angle it slightly. For me, it's a very tiny angle because I like the articulation that I get with more of the flat side pushing the string. However if you're got it completely parallel I can see why you would be dissatisfied with your picking.

[Cliff]

I finally got around to trying this approach last night, after many years of having the pick parallel to the strings. The difference is incredible! I expected there to be a major setback as I switched to a new technique, but immediately I found my left and right hands were more in synch, and I could play at speed more cleanly. Side benefits seemed to be that my palm was better placed to mute the strings, and pinched harmonics were much easier. With my previous 'technique', pinched harmonics required a bit of a change to how I held the pick each time I wanted to do one, whereas with this new technique, it's the tiniest rotation and you can switch to and from them with ease.

Thanks guys for explaining this awesome technique!

I'm still not sure if I like the tone as much, however, particularly on the higher strings. As Paul Gilbert says, on the lower strings you get a nice cello effect, but, for me at least, on the higher strings I seem to get less of the fundamental than with the parallel approach. Maybe this just requires more practice? Or is it just a tone people are happy with?

Another minor downside is that I find it more difficult to do sweep picking like this - that seems easier keeping the pick parallel and allowing it to drag a little over the strings. That said, I'm still trying to nail sweep picking in general - keeping it even and keeping the noise down. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on this.

Finally, I saw this a couple of months ago:

http://www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html

I really like the way this guy combines rigorous practice, lots of experience and observation, plus thoughfulness. He advocates something he calls the 'Benson' technique (George Benson), where the pick is rotated 90 degrees to what you describe above. I tried this for a week or so when I first read it. I think I prefer the tone from the Benson technique, but found it more difficult to damp with my palm and wasn't able to get pinched harmonics to work - though the author says it works great for that.

Anyone tried the Benson technique and have any thoughts?

[Twitch]

Your sweep picking would be more suited for flat picking, as far as the higher strings with the angle, lighten your hand and pull your fingers in closer to your palm to choke up on the pick even a more. The higher strings dont require the same force to move nor the amount of pick touching them. It took me some time to get smooth with the higher strings alternate picking, practice makes perfect or at least closer to. Also, one more note from my end, I pivot my hand with my pinky and or ring finger just below the bridge pup and bridge area(when alternate picking open notes, obviously when Im palm muting my hand pivots on the butt of my hand). Players like Mustaine claim to float your hand, but I find it way more precise to use you pinky and or ring finger as a pivot point. It makes your hand more steady and easier to maintain a constant height above the strings. The theory with the floating hand is your extra fingers in close to your hand reduces counter weight allowing you to move faster, but if your fingers mass is rested on the body of the guitar, you get the same reduction of weight on your hand PLUS the advantage of the easier consistency, but thats just how it works for me. Mustaines way obviously IS effective.

Anyhow, all these various tricks and ways to hold the pick and various techniques is what the people around here mean when they say "the tone in your hands". The amp and guitar arent the only thing shaping your sound.

EDIT: One more thing, DONT FORGET THE IMPORTANCE OF DOWN PICKING. It will always sound more full down picking. Only alternate pick when the tempo gets to fast for you to down pick, and like all things, your down picking will get faster as time goes on.

[Mr Sandman]

Really cant believe no-one in here has suggested this one yet...

[Trem]

I guess everyone likes a different feel in their pick.
I've had friends use a medium pick and way flappy strings and can do it just fine.
I use dunlop 2.0 mm. A flappy pick i cannot pick with. Doesn't need to be extremely pointy like the jazz, in fact that would hinder it for me. What i feel helps for me is a good string tension. My strings are really tight, it takes some force to bend em, but it just feels right. Otherwise i would tend to over bend and vibrato suffers. But mainly with the string tension tighter, you do not have to "drive thru" the strings as you would with i thinner pick and looser string tension. The pick being thick and somewhat rounder you just glide across them, it feels more effortless. It's also easier to play chords and stay in tune, the strings don't accidentally move or bend out of tune at all, in fact they don't move at all, lol. To me, with looser tension or playing more towards the neck the string flaps around too much and it requires a noticeable more amount of "muscle" all around to control the string as it's vibrating around. If anything i gravitate closer to the bridge than the neck for playing fast. This made it so now my right hand is faster than my left can keep up sometimes, so now i'm having to practice re syncing that.

[Cliff]

It seems with either the technique advocated by Twitch and Paul Gilbert, and also with the Benson technique described in the Tuck and Patti link (I really recommend giving this a read - it's great info) you get that effortless gliding across the string. I didn't have that before. As I'm practicing thse new ways, I find the synching between hands is much better - up to a certain speed, I'm hitting the strings more or less exactly when my left hand fingers fall. I think before there was a variable amount of lag as the pick caught on the strings, and this was causing me timing issues. That said, I can now pick faster than I can fret notes, so I'm going to have to go back and work on the left hand again

Regarding the "tone in the hands" thing - I'd heard the Van Halen anecdote about others not being able to sound like him when playing through his rig, and an old friend whose guitar playing I've always admired told me how it was important to concentrate on the right hand, despite beginners assuming it's all in the left. At the time, I thought this was mostly about hitting the right strings at the right time. Finally discovering the possibilities with playing with pick angle has really opened my eyes and ears.

Thanks Twitch for the further advice - I really appreciate it. I think for now I'm going to experiment with both this and the Benson technique. I really like the way, as Gilbert demonstrates, you can accent with pinched harmonics with very small adjustments in the pick positon. I've just been watching some Santana, and he uses the Benson way also. Tuck spends some time writing about wrist motion also, and talks about what he calls 'oscillation', where the swing comes from a hand knocking on the door sort of motion, rather than a side to side swivel of the wrist. This seems a bit unnatural to me, but we'll see. Finally, regarding pivoting or letting the hand float free, I must admit I prefer some sort of pivot - I think it helps give the hand a sense of where the strings are. I also find if I just shake my wrist while holding a pick, I can get a faster, smoother motion by letting my other fingers splay out, rather than curled in. So I think whatever gain you get with angular momentum by curling the fingers in is, for me at, least, hindered by what feels like a bit more resistance in the wrist joint. I find it's best to conduct these sort of experiments in private

[Cliff]

An update on this.
I spent about a week practicing the Benson way of holding the pick. I wasn't using that oscillating wrist technique that he also uses, cause it seems like you can't damp the strings properly that way. Anyway, the key seems to be to lock the thumb joint. I did, this, while trying to practice some Paul Gilbert alternate picking techniques (Christ, he's amazing - and a great teacher too!). By the end of the week, the pain in my thumb was pretty bad, and was moving up my forearm into my shoulder. But I could play fast (Actually, in one of the Gilbert videos he talks about how he played holding his pick this way for eight years until he stopped because it hurt his thumb.)
So for the last two weeks I've switched to the Twitch/Gilbert angle, and I'm making good progress. If anything, I can player faster still than I was with the Benson way, and the pain's gone, which is nice. Still not sure I look the tone so much on the upper strings,especially clean. But with a good bit of distortion, I suddenly hear all that metal tone that I was missing before.
Today I switched from practicing single note lines to just playing some music, and before you know it I noticed all my pick technique was out the window. I guess it takes time.
A couple of questions, though.
I find to get really good speed, the pick's hardly touching the strings at all. Also, the same with the left hand. It's like the fingers hardly touch the frets. Does this seem right? As soon as I notice I'm doing this, I get a moment of thinking - wow, this is awesome - then it all falls apart
Do you use the same pick angle for chords?
Are there times when you still dig in to get a bit more attack on the note? It seems to me on the upper string, with the pick at 45, there's very little attack.