Help improving speed and accuracy

[blackhatch]

cliff, you should put a sock on the locking nut, your sound will be clean and you will practice with more concentration on what you are doing. i do this for learn tapping or fast sweep picking or playing scales, with this way you will hear every mistake you do, the technique of muting other string is not that hard you should concentrate on the notes you are playing.
Your sound is good but press the notes a little harder, that makes you remember the patterns too much fast.. keep practicing you are doing it very very good!!

btw i liked your "smooth" video on youtube!!

[Cliff]

Regarding the string noise, I think it's a matter of dampening with both your palm and lifting your left-hand fingers a bit to control the strings. So, once a string has been plucked or excited some other way (like with a hammer-on) you lift the finger a bit but not off the string. The reamining strings you control with the palm of your right hand. Anyways, it sounds quite nice and even to me.

Thanks again! Yeah, I've trained myself to do the finger lifting at slower speed, but it's one of those subtleties I seem to forget about or find too difficult to do when playing fast.

Iiavari, Blackhatch - thanks both for the comments. I've been trying to keep my fingers as light as possible: it seems to help with quick position shifts as well as keeping the fingers close to the fretboard. I guess for legato, slightly different rules apply. I'll try harder

Blackhatch, I've tried the sock thing in the past. I guess it's a balancing act between learning something without the string noise as a distraction, but maybe with the danger of learning in a way that afterwards makes it difficult to stop the noise by normal means. But glad you liked the Smooth cover - it's probably the one I most proud of so far (and no shred techniques whatsoever)

[ginsambo]

Turn off delay, turn off reverb, turn down the gain, make it sounds as crap as possible and then play strong to make it sound good, then master it, turn up gain to 4 and no more. Since my Marshall head broke, my personal technique has come on in leaps and bounds, because the amp is weak and the tone comes from your fingers. I hate delay, it's so gay. Don't even like reverb that much personally. Volume is good though eh.

[Cliff]

You sound so much like my old friend back in the UK. He thinks I should stop using my little finger to fret notes.

[blackhatch]

You sound so much like my old friend back in the UK. He thinks I should stop using my little finger to fret notes.

i use the pinky at the first fret to 15 but it depends on what you are playing, i use what i feel more comfortable

[ginsambo]

Hey Cliff, and everyone. Out of curiosity, can I ask how you personally choose to pick these phrases fast.

E----
B----
G----
D------------------3-5-7---------------------------------down, up, down or ----------------------------------down, up, down
A-----------3-5-7-------------------------up, down, up-----------------------------------------------down, up down
E----3-5-7--------------down, up, down--------------------------------------------down, up, down

Or Down, hammer, hammer / up, down, up / Down, hammer, hammer etc.

Also this one:

E--------5-------------5------------5--------------------------up------------------------------up or ---------D-----------------D etc.
B-5-6-7---7-6-5-6-7---7-6-5-6-7--7-6-5--down, up, down---down, up, down, up, down-------D, U, D---U, D, U, D-U--
G---
D----
A----
E----

Just I was looking at Gilbert and Lynch and also have found in the past that an upstroke on the higher string you are skipping to, or picking in a phrase does make for more consistant and clearer tone in your phrasing. I think I do both, but really fast tend to go Down,Up,Down, and then Down (Again) when going up a string. Is there something fundamentally wrong with this technique? I always looked at it like a bit of a winging it style and as said have found the upstoke on the higher string definitely makes 3 notes per string picking skips clearer without so much need to palm mute.

Obviously when picking 4 per string I don't have issues with volume balance as, for me, it's D,U,D,U and then D,U,D,U on the next string etc. going up.

Just wondered how others do it and if I changed technique what would apply to coming back down again. :think:

I do use upstrokes on alot of riffs when changing strings, it makes the next string sound louder and ring more for one and it's great with doublestops along with a chugging pedal tone, but I think I prefer this up, down, up, down, up, down technque even when making larger string skips, just because the notes sound more balanced and there is more clarity and consistency to them. Think I might make a change. Surely this won't get me into difficulty when playing fast will it? Paul Gilbert seems to have no worries.

Although with repeated picking licks my winging it technique usually soon balances itself out with alternate picking, as shown above. I always find I go into it initially with a down pick and then another downpick on the next string. Is this bad?

[VitaminG]

I've never really toyed with economy picking. Seemed it required too much forethought. So I'm more likely to strictly alternate pick.

So..... I would pick that first 3-note-per-string lick as you first described it. The second approach (where you move from the downstroke on one string to a downstroke on the next) is called economy picking.

I would also alt-pick that second one. To try and economy pick that one seems completely counter-intuitive and requires you to downstroke the high E before the B string every second go round. You could make it work with a hammer-on in the middle of the lick, so that you always downpick the the F# (7th fret) and the A.

[ginsambo]

I didn't know it was called 'Economy' picking. I just looked that up thanks. Had half an idea it might be some speed virtuoso sweep picker style or something. Lol.

It is the style which comes naturally to me, at least ascending, it just seems easier,

Descending I seem to use strictly alternate picking, as this seems easier and for the licks like the one shown above I might start with maybe one economy pick, depending on where I am at, but it soon reverts to alternate, so I guess I have some sort of inconsistant technique.

Is there any benefit in training my brain to alternate pick when going up, instead of this economy shite? I like the cleaner, more kind of balanced volume and tone strict alternate picking seems to produce but what I find diffcult to remember, when ascending, is hooking the next highest string with an upstroke, after a downstroke on the previous string as it feels a bit wierd as you have to move your whole hand/arm alot more than economy picking.

However, doing a downstroke on the next string when ascending after an upstroke on the last I have no problem with. But the hooking the next string with an upstroke seems to sound better for some reason. It's like the cat that climbed the stairs.

Paul Gilbert seems to reckon that picking that last lick (B)-- D-U-D- (E)-- U freed his soul. But this feels very strange to me, No problems with (B)--U-D-U (E)--D though. But as I say it's this 'Hooking' the next string with an upstroke, as Gilbert does it, which I like the fluid kind of sound of, especially as you have the opportunity to hit that E string much harder if you want to with an upstroke.

Economy picking sounds like a bullshit technique to me.

[Cliff]

For what it's worth, I try and use alternate picking everywhere. Not because I think it's better, but because I think it's easier, like VitaminG said. I'd like to look at economy picking some day, but I think I'd like to be a lot more comfortable with alternate picking first. Stetina's advice is to not practicing the same lick with both techniques, otherwise confusion ensues .
When I'm not concentrating, I still tend to fall into my old pattern of picking any which way. Who knows, maybe I'm economy picking unconsciously....

[javert]

Yeah, what made me sceptical about economy picking was always that, ideally, you would have to think 10+ notes ahead to find the optimal picking pattern when changing strings. I do mostly alternate picking (at least I try to), but I think I do some economy-style picking subconsciously for certain riffs and patterns. I, do, though rely more on legato for solos.

[ginsambo]

I disagree about the forward planning aspect of this economy picking stuff. If you are planning your picking something is very wrong.

I don't plan anything, but when picking and ascending strings if the pick was up on the last string, I'II pick down on the next, if the pick was down on the last string, I'II tend to pick down on the next, that is what comes naturally to me. And as said decending, it is mainly all alternate. Maybe I'm lazy. But also it makes sense when you think about hand movements efficiency.

Also, loads of cross string traditional blues licks require you to economy pick, or rake them anyhow in order to play them fast. I don't think a conscious decision comes into it. I would just like to be able to alternate pick everything as I think it would make me feel like I have a bit more control over what I'm doing, especially note accents, clarity, eveness and general fluidity.

I think I cheated myself out of a proficient technqiue when I was young and whilst I'm ok now, as I've mostly corrected most of my cheats, I thinks I'II keep practicing those upstrokes on the next string as I think it's limiting me tonally and I don't want to be associated with those sweep picking, million miles an hour shred freaks.

[javert]

But how can you use economy picking without knowing where you're going next? If you don't know how many notes you're going to pick on a string before changing to the next, you cannot choose the right starting direction (up/down). That's why I don't see it as a general solution. As for the blues rake thing, that's exactly what I meant when I wrote that I use econom-style picking for certain parts. If it's only intended as a technique for certain parts (like a scale run), then it's not to be described as an alternative to alternate picking.

[Cliff]

I thought I'd share what I've been practicing the last couple of weeks, and once again seek advice and feedback.
These are exercises 51 through 56 from Stetina's book. The idea is to play a simple pentatonic across the strings, strictly alternate picking, using both inside and outside picking where appropriate. I started on these (after a long pause) maybe two weeks ago, and a week ago I got more serious, slowing it down to 60bpm and building towards 100 (where it starts to fall apart for me). The recording below is at 80bpm:

I finally listened to the advice of an earlier poster on this thread and switched to a clean sound. It makes it *much* easier to hear when the left and right hands are in sync. I could be wrong, but I think this aspect is working out okay.
Another thing I wanted to work on was getting an even tempo between each of the 16th notes on a beat. I thought this was working out while practicing, but listening back I can hear that's not quite the case.
Thirdly, I've been experimenting with a technique to cross strings that I'm not sure is going to work out. The idea is to keep the left-right wrist motion as small as possible (looks wider in the video than I thought it was) so the pick can always move very quickly across the strings. Then, to move between strings, I'm trying to use my forearm. The challenge here is to not over or undershoot. The idea is the forearm moves into position for the string change, but the actual picking motion from the wrist is just the same as if I'd stayed on the same string. I think I need to work on making this as brisk as the picking motion itself. Any thoughts on this?

[ginsambo]

I think the beauty of playing it clean and a bit trebly, hank marvin style, and not too rolled off means you do gain a hell of a lot more sensitivity and feel for equal note volumes on different strings and so you gain more control over accents and clarity, which is crucial if you are playing at high volume.

Regarding technique, I rest the base of my palm on the bridge doing stuff like this and yeah the forearm does move diagonally backwards and forward over the strings to some degree and play up at the neck or the bridge. To start you can rest you forearm on the guitar and that will cause some friction to slow it down I guess? But the trick is to just relax your right hand and I play with the pick between my thumb and side of my first finger.

Stuff like this, for me, is all in the mind. I mean it's how you hear the notes. At the moment you are concentrating on the (Whole) exercise and not the notes, playing groups of four notes and the second two of those four notes are kind of softly played and so it sounds kind of airy and not really relevant or motivating. To me I might want to play those exercises as groups of eight notes, with an accent on the first note and the rest all equally played with more integrity. If you can hear it as groups of eight notes, then that covers the repeated string changes and it'll be a lot more fluid with your hands. Hear what you want to hear and your hands will follow.

I would practice a group of eight notes on the high E / B /G strings first and then maybe on the A and low E string and get that down (That is my weak spot, especially with my little finger high up the neck on the low strings, as it's short, lol), the rest will follow on a lot easier, I see no need to practice the whole thing up to speed all at once to begin with, as it is just a repeated picking pattern, so once you get eight notes down, the rest'll be easy. Get eight notes down fast and hear how it feels and then it will come easy. Don't just mindlessly follow whole exercises, break them down and hear the notes.

Regarding Pentatonic exercises, for me, I found I was playing too many triplets and groups of 5 notes, standard eight note descending and ascending pentatonic picking and blues riffs again, which was getting generic and directionless and which naturally I always slip into when my motivation is down, so I started just playing a straight 12-15 /12-14 / 12-14 ..12-15 etc pentatonic straight up the strings up and down as fast as I could. It broke up my natural tendency to legato things about and have equal string picking, so now I can slip a few 12-14 / 12-14 / 12-15's in amongst the triplets and eight note groups and riffs all with the same note timing, lol. Also another exercise I came up with was just a sort of riff I haven't played in years to help break my natural phrasing up a bit:

E-15-(15)-15-12------------- 16-(16)-16-12-----------19-(19) 19-15----------------19-15-19-15----------------19-15----15-----15
B------------------15-12-----------------------15-12---------------------19-15-----------------------19-15----------------19----19

Before descending into my generic scale based runs and stuff. lol. Don't play the stuff in Brackets.

There is a lot to be said for just picking a Pentatonic really fast and back down again and making it sound like something, instead of an exercise in terms of developing your picking and more to the point your forearm control:

E-------------------------------------12-15
B------------------------------12-15
G----------------------12-14
D---------------12-14
A--------12-14
E--12-15

What I am trying to say is that by playing only on a few strings and playing seemingly extremely simple exercises you can actually create massive potential for exploring new avenues and breaking old habits and forming new techniques that will, ultimately give you more freedom away from what you natural gravitate towards without having to go across the entire fretboard. A lot of legato widdlers would actually struggle picking all of that pentatonic exercise at 5000bpm.

Another handy tip is to look at/break down repeated exercises and patterns or licks in terms of octaves as a basis for rationalizing them. Do whatever you want to do, but within a single octave range, then repeat the pattern moving it up or down an octave, say from the 5th fret of the low E (A) to the seventh fret of the D string A, and then 10th fret of the B string (A). This is really handy as the brain likes a bit of repetition, expecially for fast stuff it doesn't quite grasp the first time, so you can make extended and compicated sounding licks using the same patterns through octaves. These sound cool and very assertive, but are actually quite basic when you break them down to their components.

So that is my advice, play eight notes on a couple of strings and get that down first, then play a whole octave range and get that down, then repeat an octave lower on the same pentatonic scale and someties it's easier if you go up the neck as well as staying in the same position, certainly in terms of octaves it will open up the board a fair bit more. Don't concentrate on the left hand fingerings so much, as the right hand is more important, you can always correct fingerings later.

As for picking, you want to relax your right hand and don't force or overlook any notes when picking up or down. Pick them all equally. Swinging your wrist with little movements should be a subconcious effort, the same sort of motion as if you were watching porn and knocking one out, but don't speed up at the end, else your timing will go off.

That's my thesis / analysis anyrate, get three strings down supersonic, equal and clean and you only have to worry about fingerings then.

[Cliff]

Awesome advice as usual - thanks!

I think the beauty of playing it clean and a bit trebly, hank marvin style, and not too rolled off means you do gain a hell of a lot more sensitivity and feel for equal note volumes on different strings and so you gain more control over accents and clarity, which is crucial if you are playing at high volume.

Absolutely - this isn't a tone I'd normally play, but it does expose weaknesses. I rarely play at high volumes, but when I do I definitely notice that again the amp is more sensitive to any inconsistencies in my playing.

Regarding technique, I rest the base of my palm on the bridge doing stuff like this and yeah the forearm does move diagonally backwards and forward over the strings to some degree and play up at the neck or the bridge. To start you can rest you forearm on the guitar and that will cause some friction to slow it down I guess? But the trick is to just relax your right hand and I play with the pick between my thumb and side of my first finger.

That's good to know. I've been trying to avoid resting my forearm on the guitar because, like you say, it slows it down quite a bit. Problem is, I tend to use the forearm to hold the guitar in balance. Without that anchor, and with as little pressure as possible from the left-hand, the guitar has a tendency to move about, which is distracting. I think I need a pointy to place Rhodes style .

Stuff like this, for me, is all in the mind. I mean it's how you hear the notes. At the moment you are concentrating on the (Whole) exercise and not the notes, playing groups of four notes and the second two of those four notes are kind of softly played and so it sounds kind of airy and not really relevant or motivating. To me I might want to play those exercises as groups of eight notes, with an accent on the first note and the rest all equally played with more integrity. If you can hear it as groups of eight notes, then that covers the repeated string changes and it'll be a lot more fluid with your hands. Hear what you want to hear and your hands will follow.

Good point. I played it again last night with a bit more conviction and concentration. I can definitely do better than what's recorded here.

I would practice a group of eight notes on the high E / B /G strings first and then maybe on the A and low E string and get that down (That is my weak spot, especially with my little finger high up the neck on the low strings, as it's short, lol), the rest will follow on a lot easier, I see no need to practice the whole thing up to speed all at once to begin with, as it is just a repeated picking pattern, so once you get eight notes down, the rest'll be easy. Get eight notes down fast and hear how it feels and then it will come easy. Don't just mindlessly follow whole exercises, break them down and hear the notes.

Very good idea. I struggle with the pinky on the bottom E too (that doesn't sound right...)

There is a lot to be said for just picking a Pentatonic really fast and back down again and making it sound like something, instead of an exercise in terms of developing your picking and more to the point your forearm control:

E-------------------------------------12-15
B------------------------------12-15
G----------------------12-14
D---------------12-14
A--------12-14
E--12-15

Playing a straight pentatonic at speed is surprisingly hard. For me, I find it much harder going up the scale and down.

As for picking, you want to relax your right hand and don't force or overlook any notes when picking up or down. Pick them all equally. Swinging your wrist with little movements should be a subconcious effort, the same sort of motion as if you were watching porn and knocking one out, but don't speed up at the end, else your timing will go off.

Then I should be a superstar by now .