Help improving speed and accuracy

[Cliff]

So here's another go at exercise 25 from Stetina's book. I haven't practiced this seriously for more than a year. I'd like to think I've improved a little in the interim, maybe not as much as I might have hoped. As you can hear, changing strings causes me a few problems.

[Cliff]

Hey guys - if it's no good, please feel free to say so.

[javert]

Hey Cliff.

I can definitely hear you are improving. I didn't make any comments because I have a hard time figuring out what the cause of the irregularities are. The easy answer would of course be to tell you to practice some more, but I'm not sure what the root of the issues are. You're right that something is going on with the string changes, but looking at the movement, it might be more of a mental thing, i.e., you know you have to change strings and that it's hard. I'm not completely sure, but to me it sounds like you have problems with the right hand right after the string changes, which is kind of strange since that's the easy part and you have plenty of time for that. One problem I had with those exercises was that I did not move my right hand enough in the vertical direction, but you don't seem to have that problem. Could you perhaps record the same exercise at 140 or 145?

[javert]

Oh, by the way, what guitar is that, is it new? I don't remember seeing that one. I remember seeing your PRS and your Soloist with the big Jackson logo on the body.

[ginsambo]

I think it's definitely a mental thing. Relax your picking hand, it's getting there, but string changing is all about your right hand feeling the strings and not forcing them. Breathe normally and relax even more, with little movements like you are wanking. It shouldn't hurt your thumb at all, it's just practice and you have to think with a larger string spread with your head.

Learn to play that pentatonic, two notes per string, in a single position really fast up and down. If you are tense in the least, you just won't ever be able to do it. But once you can, everything else is easy as that exercise especially, as well as graduated up/down scale and legato runs etc. really kind of sub conciously locks in your string skipping co-ordination. So,when you have to pick a phrase or do a two note pick after a set of three's or four notes per string it will be easy to make those two notes sound fluid with the sets of three's before them on the other strings and actually picking anything will be easy.

Wanking. picking with the side of your finger against the pick and not the fingerprint tip and more practice and relaxing, that's all I can suggest really.

I don't think splaying your fingers out or aligning them for support makes much difference personally as I arch my wrist when I flypick supersonic, as long as you are relaxed, try playing like you are loosely shaking your hand at the wrist like it's been wet and freezing out and you are trying to force some more blood into it.

For some reason, when I get in from work my left hand is fine but my right hand, which is especially prone to turning blue and painfully swelling up and cracking to shit in the winter wet/cold outside seems to play more precisely, I put it down to being like a stroke victim I have to concentrate to move it and it is completely rigid as a unit and only moves a tiny bit each way with a little bit of wrist and forearm action. Although it takes me an hour to warm up inside before I can play everything, expecially with feeling to the notes, but ironically, although the playing sounds less rigid, then I get sloppier on the picking as it starts moving too much. But seriously how people can play outside in winter with no sun, wet hands, sleet and an easterly gale up their arse is beyond me though at best it will sound like a cold valve amp.

Yeah, everything seems OK, now it's just the string changing which presents difficulties, which is why I suggested that two note per string thing, it will get you brain aligned in terms of the scope of the spread of all the strings and so lock your hand in more mentally.

[javert]

On my way to work, I thought about it some more. I think your picking is a bit irregular even when staying on the same string. It's probably like Ginsambo says, you need to be able to relax while doing this.

[Cliff]

Thanks both for the thoughts. I definitely need to relax more - that's a cause of irregularity. I'm practicing the two notes-per string pentatonic lick at a much slower speed, but even then I struggle to keep the picking regular.
Javert - you're completely right about the string changes being a mental thing. When I was playing that last recorded piece, I was aware as I was coming to the end of the lick on one string that I had to shift positions, and that was enough to stress me out and cause me to start going awry .

I'm actually working on a different style of picking now ('scalpel' picking). I can't get this sort of speed out of it yet, but I seem to be able to pick more cleanly and evenly at slow speeds with it, and it seems to be easier to make string changes too. Part of me suspects, though, that this won't actually answer my particular problems - after all, the vast majority of people pick with a side-to-side wrist motion and do just fine.

Oh yeah, the guitar is my oldest - a Charvel Model 6 ('87 I believe) that I bought new.

[javert]

D'oh, I meant that the left hand was the easy part. What's the principle behind scalpel picking? I was wondering, what kind and size pick you use and have you tried different ones? When I was practicing the Stetina exercises a lot, I started using a thinner pick that would flex more, because I found the picking exercises to be easier that way, but when I started playing real music I moved back to my stiffer pick as I found I had better string control that way.

[Cliff]

D'oh, I meant that the left hand was the easy part.

At this sort of speed, not so much for me . I seem to have difficulty synching the left hand, so sometimes it sounds like it's damping the second of the four note group.
The idea with scalpel picking is to use thumb and first finger to move the pick back and forward across the strings. I actually found this vid after reading some earlier technique threads here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Zj5wMrwTE

I'm using a Dunlop Jazz III (I think). At any rate, it's thick and stiff (ooh er missus). I have tried others, and this seems no worse. Interesting what you say about a flexible pick, though. I'm wondering if I need to allow a bit more slip in my picking. At the moment I'm trying to slice through as if the string wasn't there, so there's no give in the pick at all.

[Hellbat]

I used to know a guy that could play super fast and he didn't move his wrist at all. He had this odd pick holding technique and all the movement came from his thumb and index finger. He was the first guy I knew that could pull off RR licks note for note.

[ginsambo]

Ain't no blues rock chatter doing it that way Hellbat. I really doubt of it's sustainable long term either, over the years if not the hours. That is weird though, almost Marty Friedman weird.

I don't know what Shrapnel picking or whatever it is, is, but as I said the best technique I learnt was holding the pick between the side of my finger and my thumb. That way you don't cramp up after an hour or so, as you sometimes do holding it with your finger print. Changing strings is definitely all in your head and tensing up mentally or physically isn't going to help, it's like jumping stepping stones or off a roof, if you think about it too much, you'll hesitate and miss.

I'm using a 1.5mm Alice Pick. It seems to stay planted when you are sweating too and I don't hold it really tight. In fact I try and have as least tension in my thumb, finger and wrist as possible, just enough so the pick doesn't fall out.

I guess it all depends on where you want to be. For me, tone is more important, although I want to play so fast, but no faster than Demartini or Van Halen or something, and I hate scooped mids, so a loose, half cut, wanking wrist action definitely cuts it with me. I guess if your ambitions are to lay down a scooped record breaking, fly wing picking thing on You Tube, you learn different. I just play fast clean and overdriven up to a certain point, beyond that it is pointless to me. The main reason being that I hate that kind of scooped, veneerial, ultra fast stuff so there really is no inspiration to do it.

I do a few things to warm up my co-ordination without looking at the fretboard, but other than that it's the tone and feel I'm after, speed whatever..

Be at one with the strings Cliff, feel the natural pulse of them and relax. Don't worry about this hand position or that so much.

For me the most important things to get better are:

Aspiring and being motivated to create or emulate a tone and feel with your playing (And not solely through your amp);

Repetition, repetition, repitition but to a context and in different formats not just an exercise and certainly not under duress:

Pullling yourself up on your weaknesses and fixing them, but again, by playing along to something or noodling, not as an exercise;

Recognising your are getting better and appreciating your tonal enhancements.

Stay like that and things just click, like learning how to cast a fly or something, your brains just auto remembers.

[javert]

At this sort of speed, not so much for me . I seem to have difficulty synching the left hand, so sometimes it sounds like it's damping the second of the four note group.
The idea with scalpel picking is to use thumb and first finger to move the pick back and forward across the strings. I actually found this vid after reading some earlier technique threads here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Zj5wMrwTE

Ah, I see. The funny thing is that after I started playing in my current band, I've actually worked on moving my hand more when I play. I used to be really stationary with my right hand, and now it feels like it hindered my picking. I think it's especially important to get the the same picking angle.

I'm using a Dunlop Jazz III (I think). At any rate, it's thick and stiff (ooh er missus).

Watch out or rsmacker may come around if we're not careful

I have tried others, and this seems no worse. Interesting what you say about a flexible pick, though. I'm wondering if I need to allow a bit more slip in my picking. At the moment I'm trying to slice through as if the string wasn't there, so there's no give in the pick at all.

I don't know what gauge strings you use, but with 9s in E standard I find that I pick too hard and sometimes end up having problems with fast picking on the high strings. Could be a source of irregularity on the higher strings. In your video the picking sounds a bit more even on the lower strings.

[Cliff]

The idea, I think, is to eventually use both the wrist and the fingers, but to start with just finger motion to try and build the muscle memory. I definitely think moving the hand for string changes is the right thing to do (and therefore having a more consistent picking angle). (BTW I'm not using this technique in the video).
Yes, I'll try and keep the double-entendres to a minimum .
I'm actually trying out 8s in E standard at the moment. It's funny you say it sounds more even on the lower strings, 'cause that seems to require a bit more effort. On some days, anyway.
Hey Ginsambo - despite evidence to the contrary, tone is important to me too, not just speed. I think you can still get tonal variation this way - it's actually easier, for me, to get pinched harmonics - you can still change the pick angle, and you have control over dynamics. I still hold the pick between my thumb pad and the side of my first finger. The guy in the video suggests it requires very little effort to pick like this for extended periods of time, and I think I'm inclined to believe him. And Hellbat's anecdote is certianly encouraging.
The way you describe moving your wrist, I'm wonder if I'm doing it differently? I keep my wrist movement in the plane of the back of the hand and the forearm, no rotational movement and no movement as if you were knocking on a door. So in that respect it's not the same as shaking your hand to get blood back into it - it's not a loose movement. Are you using some rotational movement to get that relaxed feel?

I forgot to mention - the reason I gave this scalpel picking thing a go was because I was inspired after watching Levantin play his Pillars Of Creation cover in the mp3 section - he seems to use a similar techique for some of the more intricate picking parts.

[javert]

I'm not sure how exactly I move my wrist, to be honest. I can feel that I've changed it, though. My hand used to be very stationary. Interesting with the scalpel picking...

[ginsambo]

Same here I reckon. My wrist swings really loose, as does my forearm move, where as before I use to always have it resting on the bridge. I think I can pick anything up by the neck or down by the bridge with any kind if pick angle I want. That is what I mean about tone especially. I still get a sore thumb after a while though, although I do hold it as you do Cliff, so either I'm mutated, my thumb is too short or I'm still not doing it right or getting carried away, stoked on tone and being too aggressive at times, whihc is easy to do when you hit the sweet spot.

Still, no need to change a good thing. I get all the tone I need out of my JCM DSL50 on Lead 1 with the gain half cocked through a '70's Rola cab the mids up and a JB in my heavy 1H wildcard with a 500k pot. If it sounds bad occasionally, usually the valves aren't warmed up, I'm not warmed up or it's freezing in or my ears are bad or I don't feel like playing. Don't use any reverb or even an overdrive these days. I can get most sounds I want and it all comes from the picking and delay with your left hand and vibrato I reckon. But, whilst I admire it, I do hate stuff that is too clinically executed and has no hint of Blues Rock Chatter about it what so ever.

I think one day, maybe in twenty years, I'II aspire to getting sweet and fat tones out of a Telecaster's bridge pup and a Fender twin on clean. Oh yeah, it has to be possible.

Still yearn for a JMP 2204 though.

In retrospect, I would get thumb pain if I had to do a write a ten page essay as I did in school, yet back then, I never had thumb pain ever, but I wrote everyday. So I guess I put it down to not playing enough and having a thumb cushdy physical outdoors job and drafting on AutoCad rather than a drawing board. I guess some pain is inevitable, even with playing 10-15+ hours a week.

With a loose wrist, I think I rotate my forearm slightly too on each up/down pick, sometimes quite a bit when picking runs. I think, in retrospect, this is why to me, your style of picking looks stressful.

Getting away from metal stuff, Rude Mood by Stevie Ray Vaughan is always good to learn in order to loosen yourself up with string picking changes. Without being too rough, you want to be able to dive on in there from 2' away and hit the right string at the right place IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLC3aNOVuxQ

Too monkey loose for you probably but, although I'm not his biggest fan, the interesting thing about him was that he kind of used momentum to hit his strings hard. Like that you can go on forever I reckon and I especially liked the way he uppicked notes to get phrases and riffs to 'Snap'.

Obviously metal stuff is generally more considered and careful I guess but the better metal ('80's) players, in my opinion move their picking position around and seek out decent tones, doesn't quite work the same with a scooped sound though, which is why I don't particulary love modern metal. It's like adding an inline filter to filter out all the richness.

You see you may well end up teaching yourself to pick very fast and very precisely, but will it have the Blue rock chatter factor?

You see if it doesn't, you may end up sounding like a women who just has a natural talent for playing the guitar accurately and fast, rather than a man and a musician. I'm not being sexist, it's just that in my experience women players tend to play and especially shred, very well but, in general seem to lack any individual spark, mainly, ironically, this is due, I reckon, to the fact that they have a very balanced and efficient approach and great technique but lack the aggression and strength to go OTT. They make excellent classical players, and can reproduce a reportoire exactly how it was on the record...but I rarely do I hear that they put something of themselves into it.

Apart from that bird, Courtney Cox, in Iron Maidens, she has the Chatter, albeit a female version, but she's definitely reaching for it. And she's hot

Anyway, check out Rude Mood for a different approach to changing strings whilst picking, is all I meant to say before I started ranting again. I know you are still experimienting to what suits you best, but I think ultimately, you have to accept that there are many approaches to doing it. Don't get too hung up on the Pillars of creation or pencil picking, as the chances are if you are performing any covers, you'll have to change technique to get the artists attack right as the tone mainly comes from the right hand.